3D modeling

Leket · Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: 3D modeling

hi i've never done any 3d modeling or whatever it's called so could someone tell me where i might find the best freeware one. it would be greatly apreciated.

Akula · Space Emperor Joined: Mar 02, 2006

A lot of people seems to like DOGA
Alternatively there's GMax, Maya PLE (based on 3D studio max and Maya), Blender,IIRC Milkshape is also freeware (all seems to be OK, but I've only tried Maya and 3D max, I personally didn't really like the last one).
If you really want to give professional 3D modelling a try I'd say you should propably at least try and give the first two a try, but starting out with the free version of DOGA is propably a good idea, lots of people can help you out with that

ekolis · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:42 am Post subject:

I would personally recommend either Wings 3D (www.wings3d.com) or Art of Illusion (www.artofillusion.org). I have written .X exporter plugins for both programs, so you should be able to get your models created in these programs to work in Starfury and in SE5 once it's released, in addition to in SE4 Wink

Both these programs are free, and I'd suggest you try them both out because they each have their own unique way of modelling, each with its own advantages and disadvantages.

Moonsword · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Location: Georgia

I use Blender, personally, although it is comes with import/export capabilities for Wings 3D and .X formats. I've found Blender to be good and it has been used for some pretty high-level commercial projects and is quite powerful.

se5a · Space Emperor Joined: Dec 23, 2004

I prefer meta.
the LE version will export to .x
you can use the shareware version to make your model, then load it into the LE version to convert it to .x

http://www.metaseq.net/english/index.html

there's a half writen tute for meta somewhere on this forum...

EDIT:
just point this out.
DOGA makes very high polly modles, so it makes nice renders. (good for se4 shipsets, and good for component pictures etc. but it's useless for starfury or se5.
For starfury or se5 shipsets use a proper 3d modling program (like gmax, meta, wings etc.)

Moonsword · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Location: Georgia

Uhm, you do realize that this thread has been dead for four months, right?

Fulgrymm · Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject:

Given the amount of activity in these forums, I don't think there are any sort of rules about resurrecting so-called dead topics.

Kana · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 15, 2005

Still good info...thanks...not that I'm even going to try and model...ok maybe if I'm desperate, and cant convience someone else to do for me...

se5a · Space Emperor Joined: Dec 23, 2004

so what if it's old, it was on the first forum page, therefore worth replying to if I had something interesting to add.

Moonsword · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Location: Georgia

In most forums, resurrecting a thread that's four months old is considered annoying. Do that on some forums and shoot back an answer like that and yuu'll get a temp-ban, whether it's on the front page or not.

SE.net is much more tolerant than most forums and less active. Still, it does annoy some people (like, say, me). I'm just saying, that's all.

EDIT: Also, don't mistake my statements for policy or pontificating from on high. I'm just trying to let you know that some people do find that sort of thing irritating, especially on more active forums, where it can get you in trouble.

There are times that an old thread should be resurrected although perceptions of when and why vary. I tend to be pretty conservative about it, that's all.

Fyron · Galactic Guru Joined: Aug 04, 2003 Location: CA, USA

Nothing wrong with replying to threads that are still near the top.

Deer · Space Emperor Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Location: Hungary

http://mkv25.net/USy/tylmai_se5/

Maybe this Universal Shipyard can help...

JonMacLeod · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 13, 2006

At risk of making Moonsword cranky, I have a question for this thread.

I have no experience with 3D modelling. I'd simply like to get a unit to show up in ground combat as a 2D bitmap (space combat does it automatically without needing any snazzy programs, but I can't figure out how to get SEV to do the same for ground combat). Basically what I want is so that viewed from top down the bitmap image will look like a flat picture (presumably the side view will show a flat panel hovering slightly above the ground, although actually on the ground would be better). I have, so far, farted around with wings and blender, but they don't seem to be well designed for a rank novice at 3D modelling, such as myself. I managed to get blender to give me a cube with the image I wanted (in blender itself), but when I plugged the x file and the relevant texture file into SEV, I just got a hazy white cube (further farting around with the x file in notepad, and I managed to get a solid black cube, leading to an incredibly hollow and short lasting feeling of triumph).

Ideally I could just get the unit to use Race_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp like units do in space combat. If anyone knows how to get units to do this in ground combat that would be great. Otherwise if someone could give a simple explanation to a poor befuddled thread necromancer, on how to plug a simple 2D image into a 3D model and have SEV recognize it, I would be very grateful.

So, sorry for the necrophilia guys, but I think I've bashed my head against this wall long enough. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give.

Moonsword · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Location: Georgia

Asking a question that (at least vaguely) relates to the topic of the thread is decidedly less likely to make me cranky than commentary that I find reasonably pointless. Besides, it obligates to at least try to find an answer if I do bother responding.

*opens SE5 folder, starts examining file content*

Hmm... nothing there, or there, either. I wonder what's in here...

*finds DebugSettings.txt*

I never even noticed that was there... moving on...

*opens Settings.txt*

Hmm... what the hell does multithreading mean in this context? And why do I expect that if I enable it, SE5 will explode on loading?

*finds neat settings to play with later but not what he's looking for*

Well, it's not in Settings.txt. I wonder where to look next...

EDIT: Press F10 to enable top-down mode.

Honest truth time: Blender's interface doesn't make sense to everyone. There are people who can't make heads or tails of it who are experienced modelers. It works well for me and the underlying software is very powerful and quite flexible. I personally can't make heads or tails out of 3DSMax but some people swear by it. Others swear by Caligari TrueSpace (and a lot of people swear at it Wink

). Not everyone works well with the same interface design and layout. People don't always approach things the same way. Maybe you're one of those rare people that TrueSpace actually makes sense to. If you are... well, it's a good software package if you can actually work with it, from what I've heard.

I don't know if they still do but Caligari used to release the 3.1 version for free with registration. Maybe you should try that package instead.

EDIT #2: Misread your question a minute ago. Are you trying to get it to enter 2D mode or get the game to just display a static image from most angles?

JonMacLeod · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 13, 2006

Cool, you can get the game to explode... Jon quickly adds finding and playing with multi-threading to his to do list.

What I am trying to do is add an infantry unit that doesn't look like a tank.
More specifically: I am trying to get the game to use component image "Comp_111.bmp" in ground combat for my infantry unit, in a way similar to the way it uses "Race_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp" for various units in space combat. Ideally it would be something as simple as finding a line in a data file that specifies when units should use "Race_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp" then I could simply tell the game to use it for both ground combat and space combat and edit "Comp_111.bmp" into each "Race_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp".

I'm guessing that is not something I missed and it is therefore hard coded. In this case, I'd like to create a very simple 3D model consisting of "Comp_111.bmp" hovering close to the ground facing straight up. The overall effect would be similar to a cardboard unit piece from one of those old board games (I hope I'm not the only one here old enough to know what those are).

Glad you're not grumpy, and thanks for taking the time to look into this.

JonMacLeod · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 13, 2006

I have to say I am impressed with what Blender can do, some of the model examples they give on their website are nothing short of spectacular. It seems sinful to use such an advanced piece of programing machinery to create such a simple image.

On the other side of the coin I'd still like people with minimum spec computers to be able to run my mod when I'm done.

Moonsword · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Location: Georgia

Okay, I'm pretty sure that's not going to work the way you're going about it. It depends on the method the game uses to search for images. If it's only looking in a specific directory, SE5 is going to throw up an error (probably a CTD; SE5 is not nearly as error-tolerant as SE4 was) when it can't find the image. It might find the component if it doesn't but that depends on whether the parser will accept the file name as valid for that type of object (i.e., a component image for a ship texture; note the use of file name, the formats aren't different).

As for the model... I don't know. I'm not really sure there's a way to get the game to display something that way. From what I know about texturing, there's not really a good way to do that. It would probably be easier to make a very simple model of an infantryman and use a fairly simple but very "shiny" texture. I'm not sure SE5 supports reflective lighting, though, nor am I an expert in texturing, so someone else may be able to give you a more positive answer.

A possible approach is to create a simple square (or very thin cube, if it balks at a non-3D model) and simply set the UV mapping on the model to repeat that image on both sides. I know you can do that sort of thing with Lith Unwrap, at least.

I just bought a board game a month ago that had a counter and a plastic base to insert it in, so yeah, I'd say that at least the concept is still around in the industry. Asking a question doesn't bother me as much as someone

JonMacLeod · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 13, 2006

I wasn't trying to get it to refer back to the original "Comp_111.bmp" file. I was copying "Comp_111.bmp" to the relevant sub-directory in the empires folder in my mod folder. I usually renamed it something like "AMO_INF.bmp" (for the Amonkrie version I played with) and used it as a texture for an infantry x file I created in blender.

I also cut and paste the image ("Comp_111.bmp")into "Amonkrie_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp" and edited "VehicleUnitTypes.txt" creating an entry for infantry and editing Unit Texture Start X, Start Y, End X, End Y corresponding to the entry in "Amonkrie_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp".

Needless to say, neither method worked. The second method didn't work because SEV doesn't use "Race_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp" in ground combat, and I don't know how to make it (I doubt it's possible). Presumably the first method didn't work because I did it wrong. I'll look into using Lith Unwrap.

Thanks

ColonialAdmiral · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject:

So...Do you mind if i ask what your mod is all about?

JonMacLeod · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 13, 2006

Imperium Verus is a continuation of a project started with SEIV. I am converting and expanding upon Imperium Verus 1.03 (unreleased) for SEIV.

Here is the blurb so far (it will be revised in the future):

Latin for 'true power', the Imperium Verus Mod strives to provide both added plausibility and a more challenging game.
Playability was also a major factor in designing the mod. I have made significant changes to almost every text file in the
game and many of the image files. Particularly notable changes are:
- All techs available in the game can eventually be researched with the exception of colonization technologies (no racial or
unique techs are available). Formerly racial technologies have been moved around the tech tree (except
religious which made little sense to me so I remade and redistributed the facilities and components)
- Propulsion is Improved Quasi-Newtonian. Larger ships tend to be slower (as mass cubes thrust only squares)
- Many components require mounts to make them proportional to the vehicle they are to be placed on
- Many interesting but pragmatically useless components and facilities were combined into more useful items
- Most defensive vehicle types have been eliminated (except bases). This forces defense to be much more dynamic.

JonMacLeod · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 13, 2006

Some other highlights are:

- an interlocking tech system (pre-requisite techs must be kept up to date for technology to work e.g. if computers tech level 1 is a pre-req for torpedo weapons 1 then computers tech level 2 will be a pre-req for torpedo weapons 2).

- exponential progression on most things (components, cultural achievements etc.) e.g. a level 2 component will cost about 5% more than a level 1 component and be 10-20% more effective than a level 1 component a level 10 component will cost about 5% more than a level 9 component and be 10-20% more effective than a level 9 component.

JonMacLeod · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 13, 2006

Thanks Moonsword. LithUnwrap did the trick. Doesn't look like it is nearly as powerful as blender. But the learning curve was very short for me, which is very nice, as I don't want to get too bogged down in 3d modeling just yet (later probably, but not yet). I'm sure the skills I learn with LithUnwrap will be useful when I start learning more powerful platforms.

So, thanks again, you helped me with a problem that had been frustrating me for some time.

Moonsword · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Location: Georgia

LithUnwrap is not a 3d modeling program or, rather, not a complete package. It's only a very, very useful tool to stash in the toolbox alongside whatever your primary package is. Don't get confused on that point. It has two functions in my experience: UV mapping models (part of the texturing process) and preparing models for other work (including small modifications and converting the format). It doesn't do much else in my experience.

What Lith does, though, it does very, very well.

WanderDaekar · Space Emperor Joined: Feb 05, 2007

I was wondering if anyone that is fluent with Blender might provide learning tips in what helped them pick up ability with the program. I am happy with all the options Blender has, and am working on weekends through the Noob to Pro wikibook as time permits, so I'll likely be fine. I am simply looking to accelerate the learning if there are useful tidbits to help me get started on modeling new ships.

I'm also curious how long people tend to take in making their ship designs in relation to the complexity. I've heard a count of 1.5-2 hours for some of the BSG models for that mod, but that's it right now.

isopsyco · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Mixed brains