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BM Dead

 
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Damok666
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 28, 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: BM Dead Reply with quote

For the last 6 months or so we have not seen any new info on BM. Can we assume that Captain Kwok is taking a break for awhile or has called it quits for this game.?

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gurachn
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: BM Dead Reply with quote

Damok666 wrote:
For the last 6 months or so we have not seen any new info on BM. Can we assume that Captain Kwok is taking a break for awhile or has called it quits for this game.?

I hope the latter.
It would be nice to see 1.20, especially with the racial ai design matrix he was describing some time ago.

Heck, even a final version of 1.19i would be welcome at this point!
A lot of good things in that patch but I get the impression that it hasn't been generally adopted because it's still labeled 'Beta'.


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone heard anything from Captain Kwok?

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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nope. Sad

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inigma
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 14, 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent Luke (CaptainKwok) an email. I'll let you know if he responds. I gave him the direct link to this thread. We'll see what happens.

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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. I'm around from time to time but I haven't done any work on the mod since last March. Perhaps one day in the near future I'll at least finalize the current version. Razz

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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rnl
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 02, 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, Capt is a live... ? can you release the Beta script for 1.19i pleasesss. Of course another ? begging to be ask is what game are you modding now?

http://sites.google.com/site/crimsonconceptmod/


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gurachn
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainKwok wrote:
The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. I'm around from time to time but I haven't done any work on the mod since last March. Perhaps one day in the near future I'll at least finalize the current version. Razz

Glad to hear it.
A finalized 19i would be most welcome, indeed.
I have been playing with the happiness patch and like the fact that everywhere isn't naturally jubilant, but it seems to limit the amount of unhappiness also.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YAY! Kwok isn't gone! Smile

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LordZsar1
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Location: Leipzig, Deutschland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems to be relevant enough to pop up once again: I did not foresee your return, Captain. All the more glad I am about it.
... Unfortunately, now I have started to hope again. Ah, the hardships of even the most cautious optimism!


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Artful_Bodger
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 23, 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gurachn wrote:

A finalized 19i would be most welcome, indeed.
I have been playing with the happiness patch and like the fact that everywhere isn't naturally jubilant, but it seems to limit the amount of unhappiness also.


At the bottom of the happiness patch thread
http://www.spaceempires.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=64103
there is a link to the last update
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/9/PopulationHappinessPatch3.zip

Are you at this revision?

The patch stops the 'BANG/BANG' happiness control law which has empires either totally jubilant or rioting.
It tones it all down, so the second effect is to be expected.

IMHO it is the best BM version out there, it has been solid and stable for over 9 months.
It's more than happy both with your graphics and Zwo's doctrines mods.
I use the three combined as my defaullt SEV game.


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't really played any games at all since early last year - so no modding at all. Razz

When I get a chance I'll see where I left off and go from there. Not likely though to ever get to doing v1.20 I had once hoped to do.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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gurachn
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artful_Bodger wrote:
gurachn wrote:

A finalized 19i would be most welcome, indeed.
I have been playing with the happiness patch and like the fact that everywhere isn't naturally jubilant, but it seems to limit the amount of unhappiness also.


At the bottom of the happiness patch thread
http://www.spaceempires.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=64103
there is a link to the last update
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/9/PopulationHappinessPatch3.zip

Are you at this revision?

The patch stops the 'BANG/BANG' happiness control law which has empires either totally jubilant or rioting.
It tones it all down, so the second effect is to be expected.

IMHO it is the best BM version out there, it has been solid and stable for over 9 months.
It's more than happy both with your graphics and Zwo's doctrines mods.
I use the three combined as my defaullt SEV game.

Yeah, I was using the latest version of the Happiness patch.
I like the way that it seems to keep population morale at a more realistically mediocre level, but I did have a case where I lost several space battles, including on in orbit of one of my colonies, the AI landed troops, but they did no succeed in taking the planet in a single turn. They had about 50 troops on the ground, but I still controlled the planet.
Happiness dropped to unhappy, but I seem to remember that it popped up to indifferent shortly afterwards, while it was still occupied.
A bit too nonchalant, perhaps?

I agree that 1.19i fixes most of my major concerns with the AI.
I find at if I set them up at high difficulty and a mid bonus, and don't use emergency build, that they give me a good run.
They see to have no problem landing troops, have good control of mining and clearing mines, and build well balanced fleets.

The only things I would like to see might be:
a) Planets launching some of their masses of fighters to threaten my forces in their systems.
b) Non-stock Empires using racial technologies and weapons. I knocked out a few general racial AI scripts based on the BM Sergetti/Drushocka/etc, but that's not really an ideal solution.

Apart from that, 1.9i is sweet.


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Artful_Bodger
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 23, 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gurachn wrote:

... Happiness dropped to unhappy, but I seem to remember that it popped up to indifferent shortly afterwards, while it was still occupied.

Could be a few factors in play here, if your space forces had counter attacked in system & driven their fleet away from orbit, causing superior casualties, those bonuses would outweigh the negatives of the ongoing ground action.
You may also have had relevant facilities/traits in play to boost your hapiness.
If it went to indifferent after capture, this would be due to the large garrison in place and probable significant space forces present in system.
All things being equal, normal empires will drift to indifferent.

The point here is the mechanism works, stock would be hard jubilant or full riot. Wink


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gurachn
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artful_Bodger wrote:
gurachn wrote:

... Happiness dropped to unhappy, but I seem to remember that it popped up to indifferent shortly afterwards, while it was still occupied.

Could be a few factors in play here, if your space forces had counter attacked in system & driven their fleet away from orbit, causing superior casualties, those bonuses would outweigh the negatives of the ongoing ground action.
You may also have had relevant facilities/traits in play to boost your hapiness.
If it went to indifferent after capture, this would be due to the large garrison in place and probable significant space forces present in system.
All things being equal, normal empires will drift to indifferent.

The point here is the mechanism works, stock would be hard jubilant or full riot. Wink

Nah, I had nothing worth note in system, had just suffered a series of humiliating defeats.
I thought the WP was well mined and blocked, but the AI came through with two Med-freighters packed with sweepers and a fleet of about 25 ships. Never saw it coming...
They squashed my defenders, killed two fleets and landed a sizable ground force. It was a pretty new world with no significant garrison, and pretty early in a low tech game so no morale facilities.
I'm not sure exactly why they didn't manage to win the ground battle, but it certainly wasn't due to some well organised or cohesive defense.

If I was resident on that planet I would have been shitting myself.

I'm not saying that the happiness patch isn't better than stock, just that that situation struck me as a textbook situation for a planet to go friggin nuts.
But they seemed pretty meh, about the whole thing.
Perhaps a bit too much Prozac in the water?


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Artful_Bodger
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 23, 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without seeing the details, I can only speculate.

If it failed to overrun a relatively undefended new colony, it may have been doing something dumb like sending in unarmed Marines or ones lacking ammo/supplies.

I assume you set up a Light Infantry design as one of the first actions in the game, this is what is used as the model for the Militia.

Yours will be armed & supplied Wink, its initial design may be deficient.

Those 10 or so mliltia will eventually win out (nothing shoots back, too dumb to ram, militia get resupplied and reinforced each turn end, invaders don't ). If they shoot up 30 or so a turn that would have you just winning on points as stock uses an element count to judge who has caused more casualties. 30 Suicide Marines or 30 Dreadnaughts, it doesn't care.

You'd get the Invasion hit, Enemy in System and Orbit -ves 1st turn & draw the casualties (you lose ships, it loses Marines); the target planet is duly upset.
In follow on turns you are winning the body count, especially if the fleet is no longer in orbit. Your colony starts feeling better. New own race colonies also have a slight happiness bonus.

T'was the Assault Marines on medication, not the Colonists.

AFAIK that system casualty adjudication is hard coded stock behaviour.
I used to favour fighter heavy WP defences until I learnt that a 20 fighter lost to 10 Cruiser wipe out is deemed a battle loss to the fighter defender.

In allowing the hapiness mechanism to function, the patch has merely exposed a different weakness.

The BM19i AI handles mine warfare quite well, once it has the tech, it deals with defensive WP fields as you would expect a human to.
It is even capable of sending out a small, escorted sweeper detatchment to remove harassing fields if these get laid in the middle of its empire.


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gurachn
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artful_Bodger wrote:
Without seeing the details, I can only speculate.

If it failed to overrun a relatively undefended new colony, it may have been doing something dumb like sending in unarmed Marines or ones lacking ammo/supplies.

I assume you set up a Light Infantry design as one of the first actions in the game, this is what is used as the model for the Militia.

Yours will be armed & supplied Wink, its initial design may be deficient.

Those 10 or so mliltia will eventually win out (nothing shoots back, too dumb to ram, militia get resupplied and reinforced each turn end, invaders don't ). If they shoot up 30 or so a turn that would have you just winning on points as stock uses an element count to judge who has caused more casualties. 30 Suicide Marines or 30 Dreadnaughts, it doesn't care.

You'd get the Invasion hit, Enemy in System and Orbit -ves 1st turn & draw the casualties (you lose ships, it loses Marines); the target planet is duly upset.
In follow on turns you are winning the body count, especially if the fleet is no longer in orbit. Your colony starts feeling better. New own race colonies also have a slight happiness bonus.

T'was the Assault Marines on medication, not the Colonists.

AFAIK that system casualty adjudication is hard coded stock behaviour.
I used to favour fighter heavy WP defences until I learnt that a 20 fighter lost to 10 Cruiser wipe out is deemed a battle loss to the fighter defender.

In allowing the hapiness mechanism to function, the patch has merely exposed a different weakness.

The BM19i AI handles mine warfare quite well, once it has the tech, it deals with defensive WP fields as you would expect a human to.
It is even capable of sending out a small, escorted sweeper detatchment to remove harassing fields if these get laid in the middle of its empire.

Actually, I was using this game mainly to test a few of the addon shipset I had added to the reduced scale set I did, so I didn't actually have a default troop set up. There really is no reason why the colonists shouldnt have totally lost it when their now defenseless world was overrun by Xenophobic aliens that look like this:


I totally agree that the 1.19i AI is outstanding. I really have no cause for complaint.
The happiness patch also adds a much needed sense of balance, but I suspect that it may be just a bit too forgiving of negative events.
I haven't tested it extensively, but I have yet to see a pop stay even unhappy for even a few turns, despite some relatively major catastrophes.
I certainly wouldn't want to see it get too sensitive to such things though!


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh, nice alien! Reminds me of the fireball-shooting floating thingys from Half-Life...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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gurachn
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekolis wrote:
Ooh, nice alien! Reminds me of the fireball-shooting floating thingys from Half-Life...

Nasty looking fellow, isn't he
It's a replacement portrait I did for a recolor of the Conflux , as part of the Reduced Size Shipsets pack.


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2Harry
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I really still hope is that the Small Systems mod can be updated to the 1.19i level. The SS mod has greatly increased my enjoyment of this game simply by reducing all the turn resolution delays. Even on a farily high-end quad core machine, when playing the full stock + BM, the mid-to-end games become excrutiating to play, waiting for the AI's to complete their turns.

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Tim_Ward
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 20, 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainKwok wrote:

When I get a chance I'll see where I left off and go from there. Not likely though to ever get to doing v1.20 I had once hoped to do.


Well, then I'd like to thank you for all the work you put into the BM and for making SEV at least something of the game it should have been.

I dunno how many hours of your life you've put into this thing for not a huge amount of credit (SEV ain't exactly mainstream) just so a bunch of nerds you never met could have fun playing a game most people have never heard of, but I'm guessing it's alot. You've also produced one of the best AI's I've ever seen in a 4x game (not exactly stiff opposition in that field, but still) and gotten no credit for it outside the Space Empires community.

Seriously, thank you.



I know the sun and the moon
The names of stars, their movement and purpose
I mark the place of Polaris on these impossible heights


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mwyeoh
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 20, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be great to get a final version of 1.19i with small systems. And also the AI source scripts for version 'i' if they are ever done

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Fyron
Galactic Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare the latest version of small systems with its base version using WinMerge and you can build one out of 1.19i quite easily.

Smarter than your average Texrak.


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Candle
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 02, 2015

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gurachn wrote:

Perhaps a bit too much Prozac in the water?


It's the pax! The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate we added to the air processors!"


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