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Spaceempires.net :: Really dissapointed with SE:V please give me hope! :: View topic
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Really dissapointed with SE:V please give me hope!

 
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Therion
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 20, 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Really dissapointed with SE:V please give me hope! Reply with quote

Hey, i've been a massive fan of the SE series since its inception. Loved 3, loved 4, and couldn't have been more excited abotu the release of 5..
On the surface, looks brilliant, attractive interface, nice real time battles, for the first time i can watch these battles unfold..
Initially plagued by the white flashing and an FPS of 3 - I've tinkered with GFX settings, lost clearfont, and the game is finally playable. But after a couple of in game years the game just grinds to a slow halt, it begins to take several minutes to process the turns..
my computer is XP and can run crysis, bfbc2 with no problems..
I've contiunally over the past few years returned to SE:5 because i've still never found a viable alternative for the epic customisation & empire building, i want to love this game, but it wont let me! I've tried the balance mod, everything on minimum grapically, tiny little universes but everytime, its simply unplayable.. I feel this game is TRULY broken for many people. .
if anyone has any thoughts on alternatives, or what else i might try to get this working in my last ditch effort, i would be very greatful...

cheers in advance!

Rob


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combat is what slows the game turns down. Disabling retreats and reducing the combat length help. Not creating the combat replay at all helps even more, especially with many battles going on, but then you won't be able to see how your ships did.

PBW is also another alternative. The game host will process the turn, all you need to do is play and upload your turns.

I'm curious to know what "several minutes" is in processing your turn as well as how far in your game is. I'm hosting a BM PBW game on turn 82 with 13 human and AI players. That turn takes about 45 minutes for me to process.


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ForesterSOF
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 23, 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can reduce process time by using the small systems Mod or make a limit to the number of ships and units each empire is allowed to have.

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Therion
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 20, 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for the help guys,

I can see where you can reduce the number of turns the combat replays are stored for but cant see an option to turn it off entirely.. nor can i see where to disable retreats!

I'd say turn processing has taken a max of 3 mins for me, i may seem impatient but i just cant see why it should be longer than ten seconds!
45 mins, dude, thats dedication.

i didnt realise there was a small systems mod.. i understand this reduces the amount of insystem hex's ? i've not go it but shall look into it..
Ever since i experienced these problems i've got the unit/ship count limits set to absolute minimum..

Im still so frustrated with this, how can they get away with a release like this ? i';ve loved their work, this game had nigh infinite possibilities, with all the great work the mod community does, but its seems like the fundamental mechanics are broken.. im not going to stare at a loading screen for 3 minutes out of every ten...!


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Arralen
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 06, 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therion wrote:
im not going to stare at a loading screen for 3 minutes out of every ten...!

There's a most easy solution to your problem: only add "few" "neutral empires" to your game setup.
As those never leave their home systems, they don't have many ships to move around, so turn resolution times would be very very low.
Silly suggestion?
Actually, sorry to say that, but the one being silly is you here ... Razz : You surely want at least somewhat competitive AI players for your SP gaming right?
On the other hand, you are not willing to give the game 3(!) minutes to have them all think, move, fight etc ... and execute your orders, if you're playing with simultaneous movement. (turn based movement is cheating vs the AI anyway)
Yeah I know, there are plenty of games which are much faster in that regard - yet show me one where the AI isn't A) completely incompetent and B) blatantly cheating.

As already mentioned, Kwoks Balance Mod with the additional Small Systems Mod can help a bit here, but most likely not enough for your liking: By making the systems smaller (and cutting down movement and scanner ranges accordingly), ships don't have to do that many "steps" per turn, what greatly reduced calculation time*; sadly, all the tweaked and added AI scripts add a little bit of processing requirements again.
That's the price one has to pay for the only AI able to impress me at times !



Therion wrote:
I can see where you can reduce the number of turns the combat replays are stored for but cant see an option to turn it off entirely.. nor can i see where to disable retreats

Menue - Game Options: set everything to "0 turn / 1 turn".
Or edit the SETTINGS.TXT ("true" => "false")
Code:
Create Combat Replay                                                  := True

But keep in mind that you won't get any combat replays then - so no more "viewing in 3D" !



Therion wrote:
I'd say turn processing has taken a max of 3 mins for me, i may seem impatient but i just cant see why it should be longer than ten seconds!

Now, I think, as I'm calling you silly Wink , I might give you
(*)some more information to chew on:
- the AI does all its thinking and planning at end-of-turn
- all the production, pop growth, migration etc. must be calculated
- ships do their movement by step, with the fastest ship making the first step, until their remaining movement points are down to those of the next slower ones. During these steps, all the sighting ranges etc. have to be re-calculated, to account for ships/fleets which might appear in scanner range (you only will see those if you watch the movement replays per system. Ships/fleets can avoid moving obstacles that way, too - ever wondered why there's a "seek and attack" order? Because enemy ships do not run into each other by accident, unless they're going through a wormhole.



Therion wrote:
Im still so frustrated with this, how can they get away with a release like this ? i';ve loved their work, this game had nigh infinite possibilities, with all the great work the mod community does, but its seems like the fundamental mechanics are broken..

Who is "they"?
Strategy First, the publisher who pushed SE5 out of the door quite unfinished ... is mostly finished, not because of their engagement with SE5, but their policy in general, I think.
Aaron/Malfador, who sold the rights to his "child" to those XXXXX? I pretty sure he really really regrets that now. I asked him 'bout fixing some SE5 troubles some time ago, and all he said was "ask Strategy First", what is o.c. impossible, as their support form does not work, and they don't reply to email (some kind of final answer to my question, though Sad )

I don't see where "fundamental mechanics" are broken, though. (Ok, there are some things really broken in SE5, but those you didn't mention at all ...).
Regarding player handling and turn resolution, SE5 follows the standard path of all TBS games that I know ... so unless you call them all "broken", SE5 should be fine.
O.c., if you're thinking primarily 'bout the "step by step" movement phase ... - but calling that one "broken" doesn't do it justice: there's no other way to allow fleets to intercept each other before the intercepted fleet reaches its destination. Remember, we have hexes and unrestricted pathes here, not vector movement where you could calculate an intersection point of courses in advance.

PS: End turn calculation times are 10-15 min on my rig, using Kwoks Balance Mod plus Small Systems, with modded paradise quadrant of 160 systems and all AI nations. Gives me time to do something sensible between my turns!


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therion wrote:
I can see where you can reduce the number of turns the combat replays are stored for but cant see an option to turn it off entirely.. nor can i see where to disable retreats!

You can disable retreating in Settings.txt as well.
Code:
Space Combat Allow Retreat                                            := TRUE


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TheThirdEye
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The PBW game I run is 7 Humans and 10 AIs. Large Galaxy, standard Balance Mod, simultaneous combat with replays. Turn 79.
Turn processing is about 1Hr, sometimes a little more.
PIII-933 512Mb XP


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icmp_request
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm playing with BM on a Large Galaxy and High number of Empires, and although the time between turns is huge, that's not a problem for me... grab a book or a magazine, etc.

What is happening now in the mid-to-end game is that:

1. The combats take too much time to be processed after they end. When I hit the "close" button, it can take even 1min to bring me back to the screen. This also happens with combats when AI attacks me, when it's not my turn, it takes veeerrrryyyyy loooonnnngggggg after combat is concluded and I press the close button.

2. Also, the system display map keeps blinking, and the only way to disable this is disabling the warp point lines on Empire Options, but is there any alternative point? It's good to see which systems are connected to which ones.

I have computer to play SE5: P4 HT 3.0Ghz 1.5GB RAM, 1GB of FREE RAM. ATI Radeon 9550 256MB off-board. HD use is low too because I don't use antivirus, etc. It's not an "ultimate" computer but should do the job more than enough.

Can the first problem be solved by turning off combat replay? And the second one, any clues? Any other hints to improve the graphical and overall performance of SE5? Maybe someone has a link or something...

I have downgraded my resolution to 1024x768x16 instead of x32, and have lowered the background detail to medium and graphic detail to low, but that's all I could do on "Setup"... and it's not making any effect.

Thanks!

Edit: The combat processing problem happens both on tactical and strategic modes.


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icmp_request
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update, the combat issue I was able to solve by turning Combat Replay to FALSE on Settings.txt (because in-game the only option is to reduce to 1 turn, not to eliminate), but I still don't know what to do with the systems blinking on the systems map.

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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running the game in windowed mode might eliminate the blinking.

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ForesterSOF
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 23, 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it did for me till something got upadated and now it is gone.

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icmp_request
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyburn wrote:
Running the game in windowed mode might eliminate the blinking.


Yes it solved, thanks a lot Skyburn! =)


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