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Spaceempires.net :: What do you want to see in a Star Trek mod? :: View topic
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What do you want to see in a Star Trek mod?
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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:08 pm    Post subject: What do you want to see in a Star Trek mod? Reply with quote

Now that I've got one mod out there (Stellar Warfare Mod), I thought I might be ready to take on a long-wished-for community request. a Star Trek mod! There are lots of good Star Trek shipsets out there for SE5, so I picked 12 of those races and started designing a mod around them. But it would probably be a good idea to get some input from the community, seeing as this is something that everyone's been wanting for so long. so, what do you want to see in a Star Trek mod for SE5?

Just to give you an idea of what I have so far, I've got 12 races from Star Trek (well, I did include the Lyrans from SFB, because they're so cool, but not the Vulcans, because they're part of the Federation anyway. can't remember if the Breen are independent or not, so I included them just in case!), and each race has its own race trait which slightly tweaks the tech tree - everyone can research just about anything, and there are no theory techs, but let's take for instance the Romulans: they are "adept in the use of Cloaking", which means that instead of researching Cloaking levels 1-5 (a rather expensive tech) to get levels 1-5 of a cloaking device, they start with level 2 cloaking devices with no research, and each level of Cloaking gives them 2 additional levels of cloaking device, up to level 12! Then they also have their Phasers replaced with Disruptors when researching Beam Weapons, and their Photon Torpedoes replaced with Plasma Torpedoes when researching Torpedoes.

Also, since I have a mod already (Stellar Warfare - nothing to do with Star Wars!), I'm basing the data files on that mod, rather than on stock, so you'll see things like a Battle Bridge (can be placed in inner hull unlike a standard bridge, and extra HP to boot) and smaller numbers (no 100,000s of resources or research points flying around everywhere - just 1,000s!)

Just for simplicity's sake, I'm thinking I'll combine all the resource gathering facilities into one (like the Monolith in stock). also, to keep in line with Star Trek lore, Point Defense is a rather expensive tech, and only Lyrans (remember the ESG from SFB?) have any sort of special aptitude with it. Those torpedoes are GOING to hit! Wink

Another interesting twist is a restriction on the Federation. the Federation is disallowed from building ground troops! They will need to find other ways to keep their populations happy. Of course, this does mean that they won't be able to *conquer* enemy planets, and will have to resort to glassing and recolonizing, which seems a bit out of character! Maybe I should add some sort of culture-flipping script based on population loyalty or something, a la Crimson Concept Mod. The Federation does however have a large bonus to research.

Oh, yeah, and as for trade. The base trade percentage will be zero! However this will be increased by the use of space ports. the more space ports you have, the more profitable your trade treaties! This effect is doubled for Ferengi space ports, of course, and the Borg can't build space ports (but then they also don't need them to get resources to the empire).

I also threw in a few little references here and there to not-quite-Star-Trek things. there are two types of photon torpedo, the Mark 14 and the Mark 16, the latter of which is slower and shorter ranged, but more powerful. and there's the Z-type and X-type plasma torpedoes. remember Begin's Mk7, Mk8, and Xplasma? Very Happy (Not to mention that the Romulans were represented by Z's in "StarFleet I" Wink)

Well, any requests, comments, etc.? Very Happy


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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ForesterSOF
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 23, 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I think StarTrek I think Explore, New races/empires, Klingons/Romulins.

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arthurtuxedo
Space Emperor


Joined: Sep 09, 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds intriguing. I never had more fun in SE IV than playing Atrocities' Stark Trek mod, and I hope this one turns out just as well.

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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew you would cave in and make this mod ekolis,

When you were tal;king about ground troops with the federation maybe you should make a little twist. The federation have very strict rules so maybe they should be prevented from conducting many of the WMD's and punished for bombing planets.

Noticed in stock and a few mods of SEV races don't really use viral weapons and lots of the other WMD's that you can build into treaties. Might be an idea building these into races so that races are harder to beat.

Borg should be good at ship capture and need to give them their unicomplex, ferengi should be the best for making the money, etc.

But the one race that has never been in a startrek mod (that I am aware) and could be the ultimate race to beat, (though not very violent) is Q/ Q continuum. I would love to have conquered the all, beaten huge empires but then struggle to fight Q, the race would need to be totally indifferent to the world though, no help from him but he will leave you alone unless you try it on.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure how I'd prevent the Federation from bombing planets, apart from making only specific types of weapons capable of TARGETING planets, and then not allowing the Federation to build those... hmm...

edit: yes, the Borg will have to be good at ship capture... they will start with Nanotechnology and Megascalar Construction, and I was thinking Nanotechnology could provide ultra-quick repair systems (if you don't destroy a Borg ship in battle, it will repair itself by the time you see it again) as well as some sort of ship-capture mechanism... maybe instead of your standard ship-based boarding parties, it could be a high-speed unit that carries boarding parties, so the Borg ship itself doesn't have to close with the target, but instead can launch these units from across the combat map? Transporters could then be a similar technology, but with shorter range... Not sure if units can actually launch boarding pods, though... I'll have to test that! And it would be kinda silly for the "transporter beam" unit to hover around a target and not launch boarding pods because the target has shields left... I suppose it could represent a "transporter lock-on" though? Razz


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't sure that it would be possible, just thought federation have their rules and never seen a mod manage to take account of those rules. For AI it might be easier but for players maybe not possible.

For federation, you don't need to prevent them bombarding planets was thinking more make the population not like those actions (though that might be beyond what SEV has to offer in terms of hapiness)

I was wondering however (also for my own mod if I ever get back to it) is there a way to get smart weapons which target weapons platforms and military cargo as opposed to people and civic facilities. Maybe make it so that


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I think you could do that... all damage types have a "% damage to facilities" and "% damage to population", so if I set those to zero, I should in theory have a "smart bomb"... or at least, a bomb that does nothing when it happens to land on civilians! Razz

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darn so SEV got rid of the smart bomb targets Sad

Can't wait until you complete the mod and give us geeks a new toy.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh? I thought SE5 still had Smart Bomb - RD and Smart Bomb - SP... maybe a Smart Bomb - SY as well...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

think we have just confused each other,

so what empires do you have planned?


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8472
Borg
Breen
Cardassian
Dominion
Federation
Ferengi
Gorn
Klingon
Lyran
Romulan
Tholian


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once made a borg ship for Starfury that had "decentralized" components. Instead of having separate engines, life support, etc. it had a bunch of identical "drone"components with a small bit of everything. I think it had supply storage, life support, HP regen, Combat sensors/ ECM, and emissive armor (which stacked in starfury). I had separate engines and weapons for some reason I can't remember.

In Starfury I had to give them several types of weapons because of damage type limitations, but in SE5 you should be able to make a combination tractor beam/ shield depleter and a cutting beam that does 4x damage to internals or something like that.

Borg ships had no armor or shields but they had enormous amounts of HP and HP regen. The best way to defeat them was to cause a ton of damage as fast as possible. It was a different style of playing.

I would recommend that you not use boarding at all, mainly because I hate it. Razz Instead, give the Borg -100% to research and have an event script that adds RP and resources based on how many ships were destroyed (assimilated) that turn. So the borg need to constantly assimilate ships to advance their empire.

Culture wise, in addition to -100% research, I would give them a SY penalty of 20-50%, an offensive intel penalty of 100% (assuming you're using intel), a resource penalty of 10%, a repair bonus of 200%, and 0% reproduction.


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ForesterSOF
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 23, 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a combo.

Base research points down to 50% with ship capture adding to research points.


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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer ship capture, just need to give the borg some better ship disabling weapons to make it easier.

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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Feds should have ground troops. Just watch the Dominion war in DS9...

As for races, your list is a great start, but it needs a few. Kazon, Hirogen, Bajorans(maybe, did they join Federation?)

perhaps:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nacene
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kelvan
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kzinti
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sheliak
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Suliban
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi

Holy crap this is a long list: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Races


That list of penalties for the Borg is stupid... 0% reproduction is absurd... And no intel? don't think so.


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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the borg penalties aren't a very good idea, but the zero reproduction could in theory make sense based on the way the borg operate, as they would be a very troop dropping based race. the only issue is SEV as far as im aware cant convert the population of 1 race into another so it would mean no extra borgs which would be a pain. maybe give them replicator facilities for each level borg tech so that they can still reproduce just at a rate determined by the borg tech.

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arthurtuxedo
Space Emperor


Joined: Sep 09, 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both the intel and population restrictions make sense to me. It would be hard to imagine a Borg spy, so their only conceivable intel would come from long range computer hacking. Their intel defense is equally horrendous, since they allow people to beam onto their ships and waltz around as long as they don't trigger "hostile mode".

They also don't have babies (as far as we know), so zero pop growth also makes sense.

In fact, it would even make sense for them to have no research, as they have never demonstrated any original research in the shows, and appear to progress only through assimilation.

A race that starts with powerful tech but needs to capture and analyze to improve, and also has stagnant population and is horrible at intel would be very interesting. Since they have to assimilate other ships to grow, they would naturally become the pariah of the galaxy just like in the shows. They would be hard to play and require a new set of strategies, but they would need to be set up to have by far the most powerful ships if they can keep up the assimilation, yet they can easily fall behind if they don't.

Just an idea.


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Shrike
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 17, 2006

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borg and Vulcans (where are they?) should share emotionless trait. Borg should get a huge bonus to ground attack.

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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman: yeah, I chose the races based primarily on which ones had shipsets available Wink Kzinti are from Star Trek? I thought they were from Wing Commander... You think I should replace Lyrans with Kzinti, then?

Shrike: I considered including Vulcans, but I decided to leave 'em out because they're so well integrated into the Federation that it seemed silly to have them as a separate race Wink


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Studentmac wrote:
maybe give them replicator facilities for each level borg tech so that they can still reproduce just at a rate determined by the borg tech.
If we make them emotionless and have a base reproduction of 0 this would work okay I think. how do you make it stack with the standard cloning vats?
arthurtuxedo wrote:
Both the intel and population restrictions make sense to me. It would be hard to imagine a Borg spy, so their only conceivable intel would come from long range computer hacking. Their intel defense is equally horrendous, since they allow people to beam onto their ships and waltz around as long as they don't trigger "hostile mode".
They can download information from the minds of people they’ve captured. It’s also conceivable that they could make a drone with no external components and a damping field to hide his internal components. Such a drone could be used as an espionage agent in foreign territory. Also they watch everyone who enters their ship, IF they do something possibly dangerous(such as messing with the ship's systems) it's combat time.
Quote:
They also don't have babies (as far as we know), so zero pop growth also makes sense.
They still reproduce in a vampiric sort of way.
Quote:
In fact, it would even make sense for them to have no research, as they have never demonstrated any original research in the shows, and appear to progress only through assimilation.
actually they have…. Their methods of assimilating tech require considerable innovation to merge technologies that weren’t designed to work together.
ekolis wrote:
marhawkman: yeah, I chose the races based primarily on which ones had shipsets available Wink Kzinti are from Star Trek? I thought they were from Wing Commander...
You have the Kzinti confused with the Kilrathi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilrathi
Quote:
You think I should replace Lyrans with Kzinti, then?
Perhaps so. Lyrans never appeared outside the video games and books. And the races are very similar anyways.

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arthurtuxedo
Space Emperor


Joined: Sep 09, 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
arthurtuxedo wrote:
Both the intel and population restrictions make sense to me. It would be hard to imagine a Borg spy, so their only conceivable intel would come from long range computer hacking. Their intel defense is equally horrendous, since they allow people to beam onto their ships and waltz around as long as they don't trigger "hostile mode".
They can download information from the minds of people they’ve captured. It’s also conceivable that they could make a drone with no external components and a damping field to hide his internal components. Such a drone could be used as an espionage agent in foreign territory. Also they watch everyone who enters their ship, IF they do something possibly dangerous(such as messing with the ship's systems) it's combat time.

Yes but the point is that spies can walk around and gather lots of intel as long as they don't do anything hostile. The Borg don't appear to have any conception of espionage or intel, or not letting intruders aboard one's ship for that matter. And the most human looking Borgs ever seen on film were the Queen and 7 of 9, who both still looked and acted distinctly Borg (and only the Queen was still attached to the Collective). A Borg spy who looks and acts completely human is only conceivable in the same way that unicorns are conceivable, and is not in any way supported by anything we know about the Star Trek universe.
Quote:
Quote:
They also don't have babies (as far as we know), so zero pop growth also makes sense.
They still reproduce in a vampiric sort of way.

Aka by assimilation, which would make the most sense to replicate in SEV by ship boarding and planet capture.


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Shrike
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 17, 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
You have the Kzinti confused with the Kilrathi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilrathi
Quote:
You think I should replace Lyrans with Kzinti, then?
Perhaps so. Lyrans never appeared outside the video games and books. And the races are very similar anyways.


Actually, I believe you're both mistaken. There were Xindi in Enterprise: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrike wrote:
marhawkman wrote:
You have the Kzinti confused with the Kilrathi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilrathi
Quote:
You think I should replace Lyrans with Kzinti, then?
Perhaps so. Lyrans never appeared outside the video games and books. And the races are very similar anyways.
Actually, I believe you're both mistaken. There were Xindi in Enterprise: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Xindi.
Razz You're thinking of a different race. The Kzinti appeared in Star Trek: the animated series. http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Animated_Series Vague references to them were made in TNG and DS9 though. Stuff like a starchart having a system named "Kzin" marked on it.

It's possible that they were originally included because their creator was working as a scriptwriter at the time.

Suggestions:
8472
Borg
Breen
Cardassian
Dominion
Federation
Ferengi
Gorn
Klingon
Kzinti
Lyran
Romulan
Tholian

Who we have sets for:
Andromedans (a race only in the Starfleet battles game)
Borg
Breen
Cardassian
Dominion
Federation
Ferengi
Gorn
Interstellar Concordium (seen in videogames)
Klingons
Kzinti
Lyran(only seen in videogames)
Romulans
Seltorians (an enemy of the Tholians, in Star Fleet universe)
Species 8472
Temporal integrity commision(a future branch of the federation)
Tholians (well three sets actually)
Vulcan

We sooo need Orions...

Actually perhaps we could re-purpose several to be used for other races?


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TheThirdEye
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kzinti are from 'Known Space' the Sci/Fi worlds of Larry Niven. Razz

They were added to Star Trek by Niven in an episode of Star Trek: The Animated Series that he wrote called "The Slaver Weapon".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kzin


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Hazcom13
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 17, 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the Hydran and Lyran ships in SFB; they had some cool weapons.(most races had unique weapons/technologies that made them interesting, really.)

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