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Spaceempires.net :: Known Issues in v1.19 Series :: View topic
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Known Issues in v1.19 Series
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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Known Issues in v1.19 Series Reply with quote

I'm putting together one last patch for the v1.19 series to cover off any minor issues or adjustments with the data files or AI.

Post any items in this thread that you'd like addressed.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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mwyeoh
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 20, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isnt a bug but more of a suggestion...

I think the AI should value shield regenerators much more, especially with larger class ships, weapon platforms and bases.

I know they are much more expensive than shield generators, but I usually put lots of regen in my ships starting from light cruisers and their survivability is way higher than AI ships of comparable weapon configurations.

Also, a planet with weapon platforms boasting plenty of shields and regenerators becomes much harder to take out than one with just heaps of armor

At the moment, the AI rarely puts any regen in its ships and its bases may get one regenerator which is useless


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mwyeoh
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 20, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One AI improvement suggestion:

The AI does seem to adapt well to enemy designs (More PD when enemies are using carriers/fighters, etc) but one case that should be added is boarding ships equipped with shield depleters.

In my current game, I have been using alot of boarding ships with shield depleter weapons. The AI recognises the widespread use of the depleter weapons and adapts by producing ships with heaps of armor (sometimes resulting with no shielding). This then has the sideeffect that boarding becomes very easy to do, especially if your ships are faster


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I get a message saying that my facilities/units on a planet have been sabotaged, I go to check and it looks like nothing is missing or damaged! I think the damage amount for the intel project is too low compared to the repair rate of planets and SY's...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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rnl
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 02, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Believe there were some problems with the vehicle file.

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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using any of the 3 default overall minister styles, the autocomplete for recon satellite does not add a sensor component, just armor + satellite core.

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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyburn wrote:
Using any of the 3 default overall minister styles, the autocomplete for recon satellite does not add a sensor component, just armor + satellite core.


Is this for all satellite sizes or just Small Satellites?


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All sizes.

I did some testing and realized that it will add a Tachyon Sensor when it becomes available, but before that it adds no sensor at all.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance of the drone supply bug getting fixed?


This is the one where they lose supply whenever they take damage from mines.


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erikts
Space Emperor


Joined: Nov 23, 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Education Achievement doesn't work.

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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
Any chance of the drone supply bug getting fixed?


I haven't tried to confirm this bug, but it would be a SE5 one and beyond my ability to correct.

---

erikts wrote:
I think that Education Achievement doesn't work.


What makes you think that?


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mwyeoh wrote:
The AI does seem to adapt well to enemy designs (More PD when enemies are using carriers/fighters, etc) but one case that should be added is boarding ships equipped with shield depleters.

In my current game, I have been using a lot of boarding ships with shield depleter weapons. The AI recognizes the widespread use of the depleter weapons and adapts by producing ships with heaps of armor (sometimes resulting with no shielding). This then has the side effect that boarding becomes very easy to do, especially if your ships are faster


I added another enemy design flag for human players that are "primary enemies" using boarding parties. This reverses the adjustment for shield depleters.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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mwyeoh
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 20, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainKwok wrote:
I added another enemy design flag for human players that are "primary enemies" using boarding parties. This reverses the adjustment for shield depleters.


Cool, thanks for that adjustment- does it take into account other AIs which may be sending out lots of boarding party ships? (One game I observed the amonkrie using alot of boarding ships)

I just thought of another possible bug
Its an inconsistancy with the 'change in resource' calculations in the main page of the "empire options" tab

Often the change in minerals, organics & radioactives that it gives does not match the final outcome (what happens the next turn)
In my experience, usually organics and radioactives are better off (It may have a negative estimate [or a small positive estimate], but next turn you will have a positive result [or a larger positive result])
But minerals are worse off (It may have a positive result, but the next turn I have had a smaller positive result or a negative result)


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TheThirdEye
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AIs will accept treaties from humans during a human vs AI "team mode" game.

Sometimes the treaty elements come out backwards when enacted. (I offered 5% tribute to AI, they agreed, but are paying me instead). This happens with other elements too, but I don't have records of that. I can find the game this happend in if you want.


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CamoAlien
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Location: MN

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been working on the maintenance formulas.
It seems that all tech units have about a 10% bases maintenance cost from their build cost.
Organic and Crystalline races are suppose to have a 10% reduction of their maintenance cost, being that racial. I haven't tested the crystalline yet, but it looks like that 10% reduction for units is not active (the formulas are written in the vehicles file) - for ships and bases it works as listed.
Not sure if its a SE or BM issue.


http://www.spaceempires.net/downloads-file-833.html
BM1.19g Dynamic Ship Analyzor v2.6


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 10% maintenance reduction on a unit would result in it having a base maintenance of 9% instead of 10%. On some units, it might difficult to see the difference.

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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CamoAlien
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Location: MN

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm
well that still isn't making sense to what I'm seeing, maybe I'm missing something.

my test designs, some filled with the most costly things I could find:
Ships: base maint = 0.25
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/2693/maint-org-frig.JPG
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/2693/maint-tech-cruiser.JPG

Units: base maint = 0.10
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/2693/maint-org-sat.JPG
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/2693/maint-org-weap.JPG
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/2693/maint-tech-sat.JPG
http://files.spaceempires.net/user/2693/maint-tech-weap.JPG

Crunching numbers:
Tech cruiser, cost = 8773. Maint should be near 8773*0.25 = 2193.25, and its 2193
Org Frig, cost = 7750. Maint near 7750*0.25*0.9 (10% red) = 1743.75, is 1743

Units, assuming same formula
Tech Sat, cost = 1068. Maint near 1068*0.1 = 106.8, is 106
Tech Weapon Platform, cost = 1910. Maint near 1910*0.1 = 191, is 191

note: (0.1*0.9) = 0.09 or 9%
Org Sat, cost = 1685. Maint near 1685*0.1*0.9 = 151.65, but its 168 - a bit different. Leaving out the 10% reduction, 1685*0.1 = 168.5, on the mark.

Org Weapon Platform, cost = 2945, Maint near 2945*0.1*0.9 = 265.05, but its 294. Leaving out 10%, 2945*0.1 = 294.5, on again.

When I compared ships, bases, freighters, colonizers, and carriers they followed the same formula,
Maint = Cost * Base * Racial Mod
Units don't seem to include the racial modifier.


http://www.spaceempires.net/downloads-file-833.html
BM1.19g Dynamic Ship Analyzor v2.6


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It turns out I've been using the "Ship Cost Maintenance Modifier" ability instead of the "Unit Cost Maintenance Modifier" on the unit entries. That's a fail! Razz

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this is a bug or intended behavior, but the max level of ripper beams seems a bit high... I get new levels of ripper beams even when I'm starting to get wave motion guns, and past when I stop getting new levels of incinerator beams! Shocked

Also, is it intentional that the wave motion gun has a shorter range than the incinerator beam? The wave motion gun is described as a LONG range weapon while the incinerator beam is described as a MEDIUM range weapon... and in all other SE versions, the WMG is longer ranged...

edit: one more thing, since APB's and PPB's have a descriptive ability saying their accuracy decreases slower than normal, why not the reverse for ripper beams?


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ripper Beams have 11 levels as they are intended to remain relevant as short range high damage per kT weapons. I thought I added the accuracy descriptors in for RBs, but apparently not.

Incinerator Beams are somewhat intended to be replaced by Wave-Motion Guns, which is why they don't persist longer in the High-Energy Discharge Weapons branch. Not that they don't remain useful though, as they are potentially better suited to smaller ships. The point on range is valid though - the WMG should probably start at the max range of IBs.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, cool Smile
Also, I can't remember what your plans were for the ship experience system, so this might be a moot point, but IMO the "Stupifier" weapon is quite... well, stupid Razz Whoop de doo, it negates any experience bonuses that an enemy ship has for a few seconds! Rather bulky and expensive and slow-firing for such a wimpy effect... or are XP bonuses just too wimpy? Wink

edit: sorry to come up with so many issues, but in one game I found both the Massive Shield Depleter and the Shield Imploder... guess which one I researched? Maybe it's time to balance out the ruins techs a bit? Wink A 30kT weapon that knocks out all shields and does a bit of regular damage, vs. a 100kT weapon that knocks out some shields and does no regular damage? They cost the same to research and roughly the same to build... And the "massive shield depleter" fires only every 10 seconds - easily outmatched in damage/kT/sec by a regular shield depleter?


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Shrike
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 17, 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may be an SEV bug, but I've had trouble trying to invade planets with troop carriers that were a gift to me. Even in a task force with "capture planet" orders they seem to retain their original ship strategies, which in this case was "don't get hurt".

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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The benefit of the Massive Shield Depleter versus the regular Shield Depleter is that it does a lot of first strike damage. Depending on the size of the target ship, an early hit might wipe all its shields out and result in the ship taking more 'hard' damage earlier in the combat and being less effective overall.

I agree that Shield Imploders are too strong. Perhaps a long reload might be in order since you can't control how they destroy shields.

---

Shrike,

Do the Troop Transports have any weapons?


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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Shrike
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 17, 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, they don't. Frankly, this happened in a B5W game, but even though it uses Dvoongar's doctrines by default, I can't think of anything that would cause this kind of behaviour. I checked the strategy for "capture planet" and Drop Troops On Enemy Planets:= TRUE; Launch All Units During Combat := FALSE (it's got fighters on board and a fighter bay component). The target planet has no defenses at all.

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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the TF strategy set to "break formation"? The ship should be following the TF strategy and MM mentioned to me before that breaking formation didn't cause ships to follow their design strategies (unlike SE4) but maybe it does...

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