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Spaceempires.net :: Access violations - Balance Mod 119i [SOLVED] :: View topic
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Access violations - Balance Mod 119i [SOLVED]
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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:07 pm    Post subject: Access violations - Balance Mod 119i [SOLVED] Reply with quote

Hello
I have been visiting this forum for quite a while now since its been great source of knowledge and inspiration for me when it comes to modding SEV.
The game itself is one of just a few for me worth of playing. I enjoy it the same way every time yet the bugs are annoying me to the point when I give it up for months only to come back to it later.
After some years I found most optimal combination which works for me ... mostly.
Which is SEV 1.79 + Balance Mod with Small systems (reduces turn processing times greatly on my dual core machine). I play single with bunch of AIs.

Sometimes Ai builds or does something that makes some star systems impossible to view - game crashes with access violation if I try to do that.
I was trying to find out what is causing it by enabling logs but there is nothing useful for me - its almost like chinese - and no indication what goes wrong. Sometimes those systems become viewable without crash over time (after a turn or two) but in most cases it simply ruins the game.
Additional pain is that it happens in late phase of the game(after 100+ turns), not at the beginning. I've never experienced this particular issue in stock before so I'm suspecting it may have something to do with BM or custom races (I use a few) - but custom races have replaced BM Small systems Ai default scripts...

I keep thinking about these scripts since I discovered that BM event scripts don't actually check is value doesn't go out of range after changing it by random events - strange. I hope it's not needed but still - scary programming.

Then I found a bug - AI's ended up with planets with 4910540% value over time wtf? so I wrote few script lines (placed in end turn events script) which cycles through all planets and checking - just doing sys_change_planet_value with zero - which fixes it making value normal 255%) I couldn't believe it was so... obvious. Again - is Ai script bypassing checks or have no checks at all?

I would appreciate any suggestions how to find out what is causing access violations in my case. I know that most common advice could be - reinstall, start from scratch etc. but I would really like to know what is causing it and maybe there is a way to fix it like I did with value bug.


Last edited by xash on Sat May 03, 2014 1:43 am; edited 2 times in total


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Access violations are generally when the game attempts to write to memory or access graphics it stored or assigned incorrectly.

I've never come across a crash caused by modding files, although I'm sure it's possible. Most of them are caused by the fact the game uses an outdated mode of building a graphics engine which does not safely deal with graphics memory.

So it's probably some asset or other that was incorrectly assigned. We'd need to know the version of your OS, the version of SEV, the mods and versions you were using, as well as the races involved.

-Crissa


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply Crissa.
Well as much I suspect - graphic.
I use SEV 1.79 retail with Balance Mod v119i (with small systems patch) (win XP)
Custom races used in my current game (downloaded from this site):
Empire Confederation
N'grath Empire
Acari Empire
Yith Collective
Hydran Kingdom Empire
+ 1 stock:
Xiati Empire (all empires are using default small systems AI scripts)
I suspected Yith since it seems like access violations happen in star systems in which they always have something, but I checked pictures in case of any missing or empty files - found nothing.
Error happens in somewhat dense systems where many races have many things (ships, satellites, planets) and what I also noticed, that AI sometimes places satellites 'very high' above the planet so my ships can't reach them, and they appear to be invul (dont take damage nor cause any).
Crissa wrote:

I've never come across a crash caused by modding files, although I'm sure it's possible. Most of them are caused by the fact the game uses an outdated mode of building a graphics engine which does not safely deal with graphics memory.

Ye, well so how about that high Ai planet value thing which I described earlier? It doesn't happen to my planets or any owned by human player.
And like I said I didn't notice that in stock. And I believe these value bug was causing my game freeze at AI player turn processing - no more freezing after I fixed it. Yet I'm out of leads when it comes to that Access violation thing.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sometimes Ai builds or does something that makes some star systems impossible to view
Hmmm... are you sure these systems could be viewed before? It could be either a map or ship set error, it's hard to be sure which.

Also, what type of system is it?


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I was able to view these systems just a turn before, actually current one - which is causing the problem I visited twice - its densely populated with enemy races.
I just came in with my fleet but got kicked out after having few battles. So my fleet withdrawn for repairs and stuff leaving few ships behind. Next turn I wanted to see how situation has changed there and when I clicked the system to see whats going on - bang! access denied crash. I reloaded the save, even rebooted my machine, still the same - system is not accessible (viewable).

I even let few turns go without going to look into this system to avoid the crash, yet it still crashes if I try to view it.
This problem does happen in almost everyone of my games once for a while (so I keep every game on autosave every two turns - autosaving is taking almost 1 minute with long lasting games which is annoying) but when it does I usually load autosave and simply don't look to that particular system for the turn and next turn that system is not causing the problem any more - it becomes viewable again. This one is different now - it doesn't go away with next turns.

EDIT: I was just playing around with setup settings even though I worked that out some time ago and I was convinced I already had best possible combination set. When I have changed graphic detail setting down to medium - I could view that system again without access violation crash...
I feel kind of silly now after trying so many things with config files, scripts and stuff only to discover that changing it to medium there could help.
I don't consider it solved just yet, I need to play around with it a bit more.

Thanks guys


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... Well... I HAVE seen a similar issue... but... that issue was related to stellar objects and not ships. It could be a memory issue. How many ships are there in the system?

In case you were wondering... the game won't do more than around 250 objects per system. If something forces it to have more... insta-crash. And yeah, SE5 crashes almost always say "Access violation"... the error messages don't have much data in them.


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As objects you mean ships? yes, I think there wasn't more than 250 ships, but much more units (around 500+) yet I don't think thats the problem since I have systems with 1000+ units deployed (fighters,drones,sats,mines) and no problems related to those places so far. It's good to know though.

On the other hand I wonder what amount of objects has to do with graphic detail setting? It doesnt make much sense to me, yet I'm not expecting that things have much sense in this game - weird things just happen here and there from time to time Laughing The only thing which matters for me is that the game itself has great modding potential, it's just too bad it's still incomplete and buggy after so much time and so many patches. I hope the day will come when they would finally release the source, since there is no will to patch it any further.
It's written in Delphi as far as I remember - not very popular these days I guess, and not so efficient as other solutions but well... day dreaming about sources.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By "objects" I meant "Stellar objects". Sorry. IE planets, etc...

Anyways, one flaw the game engine has is that it apparently loads every ship in a system even though it only displays the largest object (stellar or otherwise) in each hex. This causes major slowdown in systems with large fleets, even though the fleets aren't actually drawn, only the largest ship is.

Yeah, there are several major bugs in the last patch, but manageable. It's not like one of the older patches where use of crew-killing weapons was suicidal. Sad It might have been 1.66 that had a glitch informally known as "the flamethrower of death". What would happen is that if the crew of a ship died, or the bridge was destroyed, the ship would suddenly fire every weapon it had until it ran out of supply/ammo. It was ridiculous having ship that should be crippled suddenly turn into rapid fire artillery...

The worst glitch I know of in the current build is what I call the "barfing" bug. Any system that will have objects placed in it, with the possible exception of storms, must have a star(or destroyed star) as the first object placed... otherwise the game won't spawn the objects that go in the system. Why? no idea.


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:

The worst glitch I know of in the current build is what I call the "barfing" bug. Any system that will have objects placed in it, with the possible exception of storms, must have a star(or destroyed star) as the first object placed... otherwise the game won't spawn the objects that go in the system. Why? no idea.

I'm not quite sure what you mean and what is significance of this.

The worst for me is a bunch of not active abilities and long times for saving the game (when autosave is used which is a must in case of sudden bugs)
I really appreciate Captain Kwok's work on small systems mod - this is great since long waiting for turn processing was a pain. I would make them even slightly smaller but I didn't figure it out enough (ai scripts).
Lack of heroes (based on ships experience) is also big downside of the game.
That would provide more personal attachment to certain ships or/and planets.
I've tried to do something about it but all possible solutions were... not enough surprising and it doesnt feel well if done manually by renaming.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short version: it means you can't generate planets in a sun-less system.

"Not active abilities"? what do you mean by this?


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
Short version: it means you can't generate planets in a sun-less system.

Oh yes, I get it now. All you can do is to create a star in empty system and then constructed planet (sphere, ring), but yeah there is lack of ability to create normal planets in such case. I was wondering about scripted creation of asteroid fields but so far I didn't find easy and elegant way to do it.
Component ability to 'run certain script' would come handy in such cases. lol

By not active abilities I mean these mentioned in modding pdf file as 'not used', and some not working as expected.


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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xash wrote:
marhawkman wrote:
Short version: it means you can't generate planets in a sun-less system.

Oh yes, I get it now. All you can do is to create a star in empty system and then constructed planet (sphere, ring), but yeah there is lack of ability to create normal planets in such case. I was wondering about scripted creation of asteroid fields but so far I didn't find easy and elegant way to do it.
Component ability to 'run certain script' would come handy in such cases. lol

By not active abilities I mean these mentioned in modding pdf file as 'not used', and some not working as expected.

I also was wondering about being able to create asteroids. That would be cool


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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xash wrote:
marhawkman wrote:

The worst glitch I know of in the current build is what I call the "barfing" bug. Any system that will have objects placed in it, with the possible exception of storms, must have a star(or destroyed star) as the first object placed... otherwise the game won't spawn the objects that go in the system. Why? no idea.

I'm not quite sure what you mean and what is significance of this.

The worst for me is a bunch of not active abilities and long times for saving the game (when autosave is used which is a must in case of sudden bugs)
I really appreciate Captain Kwok's work on small systems mod - this is great since long waiting for turn processing was a pain. I would make them even slightly smaller but I didn't figure it out enough (ai scripts).
Lack of heroes (based on ships experience) is also big downside of the game.
That would provide more personal attachment to certain ships or/and planets.
I've tried to do something about it but all possible solutions were... not enough surprising and it doesnt feel well if done manually by renaming.

Under the data file for fleet exp and ship exp you could mod it to fit what your looking for maybe giving a certain ship regen or something if it has X experience.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can add asteroids via an event script. I'm not sure of the details though.

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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
I think you can add asteroids via an event script. I'm not sure of the details though.

that would be cool but would have to check that an asteroid is not in that same sector to be placed or atleast not where the sun is or black hole, ect lol you know what im saying Razz


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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

murphy0512 wrote:
marhawkman wrote:
I think you can add asteroids via an event script. I'm not sure of the details though.

that would be cool but would have to check that an asteroid is not in that same sector to be placed or atleast not where the sun is or black hole, ect lol you know what im saying Razz

The way I have combated the use to make more asteroids is by increasing the value of the asteroids so they yield more resources


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm I'm more concerned about ... layout of the universe - ability to remodel the quadrant during the game rather than resources themselves.
If I would be purely interested in resource collecting then I would go for solar resource generation maybe (if it works ofc - I dont remember).

As for heroes idea - sure, I could use ship experience abilities but it doesn't taste good - tried that. Main idea is to have a hero which rises out of ship experience (name, properties of such hero would be taken randomly from a hero file) but you should be able to move him/her to another ship (reassignment) and ofc have it displayed on main ship screen (same place where name,class and other things are displayed). I hope I explained it better.


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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xash wrote:
Hmm I'm more concerned about ... layout of the universe - ability to remodel the quadrant during the game rather than resources themselves.
If I would be purely interested in resource collecting then I would go for solar resource generation maybe (if it works ofc - I dont remember).

As for heroes idea - sure, I could use ship experience abilities but it doesn't taste good - tried that. Main idea is to have a hero which rises out of ship experience (name, properties of such hero would be taken randomly from a hero file) but you should be able to move him/her to another ship (reassignment) and ofc have it displayed on main ship screen (same place where name,class and other things are displayed). I hope I explained it better.

I don't know about remodeling during the game, but def can do it before the game in the SystemType file. As for the Hero idea, that sounds good, but i'm not sure on how to do the scripting for it and if would call the hero name functions from a new file type, That stuff might be hard coded


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

murphy0512 wrote:

I don't know about remodeling during the game, but def can do it before the game in the SystemType file. As for the Hero idea, that sounds good, but i'm not sure on how to do the scripting for it and if would call the hero name functions from a new file type, That stuff might be hard coded

well... I mean remodelling - when you would like to reshape the universe during play - the game now tends towards emptying the universe since there is lack of ability to create regular systems from pure void - you can only create sphere and ring worlds out of nothing but not regular systems.

Hero is an idea - it's how I would like it to have - I do realize however that certain things can't be done.


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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xash wrote:
murphy0512 wrote:

I don't know about remodeling during the game, but def can do it before the game in the SystemType file. As for the Hero idea, that sounds good, but i'm not sure on how to do the scripting for it and if would call the hero name functions from a new file type, That stuff might be hard coded

well... I mean remodelling - when you would like to reshape the universe during play - the game now tends towards emptying the universe since there is lack of ability to create regular systems from pure void - you can only create sphere and ring worlds out of nothing but not regular systems.

Hero is an idea - it's how I would like it to have - I do realize however that certain things can't be done.

I see yea it would be cool if we could create planets, asteroids, things of that nature. The Hero Idea is a good one. I wouldn't give up on it Smile


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFAIK, you could, at least in theory, create scripts that do just that... well, except for adding new solar systems to the map. I'm pretty sure that doesn't work.

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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
AFAIK, you could, at least in theory, create scripts that do just that... well, except for adding new solar systems to the map. I'm pretty sure that doesn't work.

Sorry foe me not knowing all the abrvs, but what is AFAIK?


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Far As I Know. Razz

Hmm... I know Isopsyco did that stuff in some of his mods. His BSG mod has a script that deletes all warp points at the end of each turn, but it also adds debris fields(storms) to the map at each location where a space battle took place. His version of Asteroid mod has a script that adds planet objects to the map as part of a special construction tech.


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murphy0512
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 30, 2014

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
As Far As I Know. Razz

Hmm... I know Isopsyco did that stuff in some of his mods. His BSG mod has a script that deletes all warp points at the end of each turn, but it also adds debris fields(storms) to the map at each location where a space battle took place. His version of Asteroid mod has a script that adds planet objects to the map as part of a special construction tech.

lol Thanks Smile That's cool being able to add planets and I wondering if the planets could be replaced with asteroids


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xash
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 27, 2014

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is script function (Sys_Create_Planet) which can add a planet but I'm not sure if asteroids can be created with it.
My main concern with scripting is necessity to use loop statements in scripts which may greatly increase turn processing and lack of some Create and Set type functions, but there seem to be great excess of Get data type functions.

I wish that abilities could use all functions instead just a few.

More about hero idea.
I have tried two ways.
1. Create custom unit type (like drone or fighter)with its abilities added to the carrier ship (which didn't work for some reason) - so the unit itself could be created with some 'components' - those were certain skills with modifiers.
It ended up to be messy and didn't work properly. The only thing which I've got was the ability to move it from one ship to another easily.

2. Use ship experience - script was able to change name of the ship when it got certain amount of experience - it was just adding small rating indicator to the name '(star and skill number 1 to 5 for ex: *4 name), so I could see which ships were more experienced (without digging into properties of each one to find most experienced ones). Unfortunately this solution doesnt allow transferring experienced crew between ships - which can be done with some more scripting I guess.

I know that there is a lot of mods around with certain addons, yet like I said I play single, which means that AI can't be crippled much (or put in great disadvantage) by mods, otherwise the game looses ability to be enjoyable for me.
I've been trying some FTL drive mods and I even created one myself - by simply adding 3 component FTL drive (damn hardcoded destroy after use component property) - but I removed it since - like I said above - AI was pretty much unable to use it properly.


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