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Combat updates
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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:01 am    Post subject: Combat updates Reply with quote

so I thought I'd start a topic related to the Newtonian combat engine I'm writing.

So far, we've got:

ShipMove:
Newtonian stuff: 99% done (anything more is candy)
Process: done
Replay: done
visuals: enough to replay, not pretty (only one ship model, not using any se4 sprites(yet?) )

Bolt Weapons:
process: done
replay: done
visuals: needs work (enough to replay not pretty)

Seekers:
Process: done
replay: 50%
visuals: needs work (enough to replay not pretty), not actually showing up.

Beams:
Process: done? untested
replay: done? untested
visuals: none

TODO: (in no particular order)
Fighters and other units (Sats, drones etc)
planets (weapon platforms etc)
suns, warp points, asteroids, storms.
Helm strategies/scripting inc. formations.
Targeting strategies/scripting
visuals/shipsets directory structure for handling 3d models in combat, engine thrust points weapon firing points etc etc. - 50% done.
other graphical candy: explosions, atmo spewing from damage, etc.etc.
modfile improvements to take advantage of the combat.
Ground combat? this is kinda way future, but I'd like to reuse much of the space combat here.

once I've got missiles, fighters and planets done, I think I'll call it 'Playable'


Last edited by se5a on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've revived an older project of mine, realising that a lot of what I wanted to do for FrEee combat as far as graphics and effects went was pretty similar to what I wanted to do in this other project, and, the other project being smaller would make an excellent test bench to try stuff.
here's some screenshots of Mogeroids:

Full thrust ahead!


Rotating.


Rotating2.


yes... yes that is an Amonkire battleship from seV
and it was trivial to convert too now that I've found a half decent tool
**** blender, can chuck that POS out the window now.
may it burn in a fire.
locations for the thruster points need to be set in a cfg file, but that's fairly trivial, I'm using a JSON format for it and it's fairly self explanatory.
one minor? problem for FrEee however, is that we can't distribute stock seV shipsets, converted or not with FrEee.
ways around this would be:
show everyone how to convert shipsets (do that anyway)
but that's going to be a time consuming process for everyone to convert all their own stock shipsets.

Could maybe see if it's possible to write a script to convert the shipsets, then anyone with SEV can convert the files and use them in FrEee.
this is definitely possible to do, however weather it's within our skill is another story. the program I used to convert the above is DeleD which I *think* is open source. if so, that might make writing a script to get DeleD to import.X then export .mesh for a bunch of folders and output a shipset folder for FrEee combat might be a bit easier.

anyway, I'm rambling.
enjoy the shiny.


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MattII
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 16, 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate to say it, but the exhausts just don't look good. It makes them seem more like models with gunpowder rockets than huge, futuristic spaceships.

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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coders art. what can I say?
but thats the beauty of the system, particle effects can be dropped in and are named by the shipset.
I think this fits the retro look I'm going for in mogeroids though.


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've created an AHK script that will iterate through an SEV shipset folder and, using DeleD will export the .mesh and .material files, as well as the needed textures to a specified directory.

for fancy stuff like thruster and shooty effects, you'll still need to stick locations in the shipname.cfg file. (which will need to be created for each hulltype anyway)
Thing is, we can distrubute the cfg files, so although they have to be done manualy they only have to be done once by one person.

I'll include the ahk script in FrEee and post instructions etc once I've got the shipset stuff done in FrEee (should be fairly simple port from what I've done in Mogeroids)

meanwhile, how many of you artists have *origional* se5 shipsets that we could include with FrEee?


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I made a SE5 version of my Fractalian set. Don't remember if I ever made any others...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you don't have it uploaded to se.net that I can see ed.

Kwayne, you've got three extreamly good looking shipsets that I can see that I think are compleatly origional. are we good to use them?


Last edited by se5a on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total


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Kwayne
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be my guest Wink

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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://edkolis.exofire.net/Fractalian.7z

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excelent. thankyou both.

including mine, thats five shipsets for me to work with.

for those interested in making particle effects there's this tool here:

http://roussel-geoffrey.blogspot.co.nz/2011/09/ogre-particle-lab-0999.html

It does have a few stability issues, gets really really fussy about paths, and doesnt log, so if there's a problem it can be a pain to figure out. anoying really. I wish the guy that created it had left the source open or keeped updating it. it's quite a usefull tool.
Top tip: if it crashes after you've saved a particlesystem. open that particlesystem in a text editor and change the name. for some dumb reason the lab doesnt rename the particle name inside the file if you copy a particle system, just the file name. and then crashes next time you open up particle lab because it's trying to load two particle systems that have the same name.

for those interested in creating ships, there's this:
http://www.delgine.com/
you'll also need the ogre mesh exporter found in the plugins section there.

There's (horribly written) instructions in the free repository on how to convert SEV shipsets here:
https://bitbucket.org/ekolis/freee/src/42e219d0801f8d793d3603d96d7b96d47f6b12c9/FrEee.WinForms/MogreCombatRender/Tools/?at=default
the ahk script is there both as a compiled exe and as the raw .ahk

The combat engine is currently compleatly broken till I do a bit more work on it. unfortunatly I'm away for the weekend, so it's going to have to wait till next week, however once that is done, it should be able to load ships from the cfg files.

there's an example cfg file here:
https://bitbucket.org/ekolis/freee/src/42e219d0801f8d793d3603d96d7b96d47f6b12c9/FrEee.WinForms/MogreCombatRender/Media/Pictures/Races/Default/Delta_Escort.cfg?at=default

The combat engine as it stands should be able to handle bumpmapping, transperancy and simular stuff. though I've not tested it.

The graphics engine can do animation, bones etc, but I've no idea how any of that works, so the combat engine itself will need some work in that area (awsome space monsters and fully articulated turrets anyone?) but that will be somethig for the future.


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so the combat engine will now render a ship if it has a cfg file and apropriate mesh and material files for the hulltype.
KpiImp set and Ngrath set is mostly there (still need to create more cfg files and there's a few portrates to do)

Anyone want to sugest or make a 3d 'default' shipset?
the engine will use this shipset if it can't find files for the shipset that the player is using.
Bonus points if you can make one to test bump mapping and transperiancy.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The KpiImp shipset seems pretty generic to me... not that it's bad or anything, just that it has that "generic spaceship" feel to it. (Also it looks like the current default ship!)

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Combat_Wombat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just make a grey pyramid and call it the default model

Co-Lead of the FrEee project an open-source Space Empires IV clone

Author of Invasion! for Space Empires IV


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, if it worked in the classic Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine"... Wink

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've been fairly quiet on the combat front lately.
I did a bit of a code refactor with the math, moved all the math into a library of it's own... which caused way more problems than I expected. I think Ed has fixed all of those now though.
I've started playing around with billboards in mogre, still not got anything to show, but I've learned a few things which seem promising.
I think for beam weapons I need to use billboardchains rather than billboardSets, however there's very few examples of this even for Ogre, and what I did find didn't translate to mogre as well as most other snippets. we'll see what the mogre forum peeps have to say.
There has been some activity on the mogre front lately which is awsome, I have a slightly newer version of mogre than the one we're currently using. I'll update at some point in the near future. (should be just a drop in replacement of dlls after I've built/compiled mogre)
I've recently gotten a job soldering up circuit boards, while it's not a terribly interesting job, it doesnt suck the same mental energy as codeing does, so althogh I've got waaaay less time to work on freee, the little time I do have I'm not too washed out to work on it.


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the shiny graphics side of things didn't really move very far. though if you've seen the screenshots thread you might have noticed I've been messing around with strategies.

I've got nearly all the groundwork for strategies done now, which feels like a huge milestone as I didn't know how I was going to do it till I'd gotten this far. there's only a handful of things left to do with it other than testing, first I need to be able to save the strategies once they're created. currently the designer will create an object that can be used in combat (seems to work to I think, though it'l need lots more rigorous testing) however it's not persistent. I think I'll need to talk to ed about how to do that.

after that's done I need to tweek the weapons a bit. the idea is that for each multiplex ability you get to add another target strategy. the gui handles that bit now. but you can't move the weapons between the said targeting strategies yet, and the combat doesn't know what to do with multiple target strategies either(currently I think the weapons all use the first targeting strategy in the list) but this should be awesome for carrier battles type mods where you might want to build a ship full of smaller weapons targeting a bunch of different fighters.

then I need to add a bunch more strategy blocks to mess with. the easy ones are easy. the harder ones like getting weapon ranges I'm not sure about, then theres harder ones like being able to define a specific ranges and compass angles etc. (useful for formations and staying at a specific range) - at that point I should be testing more and finding lots of bugs in the combat engine itself and get some of those weeded out. there's also things like blocks to check current supplies and if out, return to the nearest carrier to resupply for fighters.

Aaand then there's making it look 'cool' currently it looks pretty damn ugly. I want to make the little checkboxes look like plugs and the lines look like wires which curve. and alt text to help.

meanwhile here's a screenshot, can you guess what this strategy is supposed to do?:


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, looks like this strategy is supposed to stay near the nearest ally and attack any nearby enemies?

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you get the stay near ally part?

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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Objects in this empire" is a list of ships, fighters, bases etc etc. that is in the same empire as "This".

I couldn't think of a better name for it... "Allies" doesn't really cut it, since Allies would include objects in another empire that you're friendly with.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Our Combatants"?

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good Ed.

messing with the scheme a bit to bring it more inline with the rest of the game:



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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can now move weapons between multiple fire controls.
this means you can have one weapon firing on big ships, and another firing on little ones, or something. so that's done.

This also shows SJ's plugs. we'll have to do something about the lines and make them look a little more like wires or something, but that can come later. it's 'cool' enough for now. function over form brah.

half the saving stuff is done, ed took a look at that, I'm not sure how far through he got with it. it's currently enough to test in the combat sim I think.
I'll need to add loading of a strategy into the designer. currently you just get to start with an empty palette when you open the strategy window for a design, even if it already has a strategy designed for it. I want to allow loading of a strategy from another design too, that should be easy once the form can actually load an existing design though.

aaand still more strategy blocks to add.



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Combat_Wombat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even I am amazed at the progress you guys have made on this.

Co-Lead of the FrEee project an open-source Space Empires IV clone

Author of Invasion! for Space Empires IV


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

se5a: The reason I didn't get further with saving strategies is because strategies are currently storing a list of CombatWeapon objects, meaning that they are tied to an individual ship, and I didn't really feel up to digging into your code to switch it to some sort of index thing or whatever.

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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se5a
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 23, 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I changed that ages ago.

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