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Spaceempires.net :: Known Issues in v1.19 Series :: View topic
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Known Issues in v1.19 Series
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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two other things that should probably be fixed:

Space Yard I needs to be available to build on newly colonized planets or it becomes nearly impossible to build after being upgraded. I coulda thought we talked about this before, how do we fix it?

The Space Port should be blocked from races with Natural Merchants. Pretty low as bugs go.

-Crissa


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is natural merchants empire wide?

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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How else would it work?

-Crissa


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In FrEee it is racial - if you capture a colony of merchants, that colony will not need a space port to get resources to your empire! Very Happy

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Veni_Vidi_Vici
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 18, 2009

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekolis wrote:
In FrEee it is racial - if you capture a colony of merchants, that colony will not need a space port to get resources to your empire! Very Happy


Win


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but it's still silly for merchants to need a spaceport in their tech menu. Other races... Not so much.

ekolis wrote:
In FrEee it is racial - if you capture a colony of merchants, that colony will not need a space port to get resources to your empire! :D


In FrEee you need a spaceport on every planet? (That sorta makes sense but it also it shouldn't take up a slot then...)

-Crissa


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Artful_Bodger
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 23, 2009

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crissa wrote:
Two other things that should probably be fixed:

Space Yard I needs to be available to build on newly colonized planets or it becomes nearly impossible to build after being upgraded. I coulda thought we talked about this before, how do we fix it?

The Space Port should be blocked from races with Natural Merchants. Pretty low as bugs go.

-Crissa


The Crimson Concept Mod allows for a second type of yard, Micro Yard.
Define a separate yard type in this mod "Construction Camp" which is really an SYI. If you want real Yard later you'll have to scrap the CC first. Could even set it up not to construct ships.


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
Is natural merchants empire wide?


IIRC, it is racially based.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crissa wrote:

In FrEee you need a spaceport on every planet? (That sorta makes sense but it also it shouldn't take up a slot then...)
-Crissa


No, you still only need one per system. If your colony is populated by merchants, though, it doesn't need a spaceport.


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artful_Bodger wrote:

The Crimson Concept Mod allows for a second type of yard, Micro Yard.
Define a separate yard type in this mod "Construction Camp" which is really an SYI. If you want real Yard later you'll have to scrap the CC first. Could even set it up not to construct ships.


Are you sure about that last part? I wanted to try something along those lines, but the only abilities I found are "Space Yard" and "Space Yard Rate Modifier". I couldn't find anything for non-ship construction.


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if your system has a colony with merchants, the system doesn't need a spaceport? Or only that colony (which would be darn useless, because they natural merchants would lose their advantage by inviting new races to their systems...)

Yeah, the micro yard is a good idea. A different axis: A yard that gets better not by being more expensive, but maybe cheaper or smaller.

As it is, if you've upgraded your Space Yard in Balance, your new colonies are sunk for building them unless they also have a few hundred population units.

-Crissa


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only that colony. Yeah, natural merchants would need spaceports for systems where they have colonies of other races...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that somewhat ruins the entire point of being natural merchants, doesn't it?

They suddenly can't fly to other worlds? What?

-Crissa


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Artful_Bodger
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 23, 2009

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zwo_Dvoongar wrote:
Artful_Bodger wrote:

The Crimson Concept Mod allows for a second type of yard, Micro Yard.
Define a separate yard type in this mod "Construction Camp" which is really an SYI. If you want real Yard later you'll have to scrap the CC first. Could even set it up not to construct ships.


Are you sure about that last part? I wanted to try something along those lines, but the only abilities I found are "Space Yard" and "Space Yard Rate Modifier". I couldn't find anything for non-ship construction.



AFAIK (you know I don't mod, just test/break things) an SY has an amount of ship/facility/repair; CC's micro yard has less than an others.
It is seriously different to the BM approach. I suspect each of the S/F/R
are definable. Only the authors really know.

Rnl found an answer to the question, over there.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just discovered this, to my surprise:
Code:
function Minister_Attack_Ships_Boarding returns boolean
params
  ship_id:                   long
vars
  orders_given:              boolean := FALSE
begin

  // Send our Boarding Ships to join fleets
  if (not orders_given) then
    set orders_given := Send_Ship_To_Join_Fleet(ship_id)
  endif

  return orders_given
end


I'm going to try having the boarding ships use the "Patrol" minister instead in my mod. All that's got them doing is joining fleets.

I can't help thinking I've missed something, since I've had individual AI boarding ships capture ships. It's very rare, but it has happened. Chance collision?


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is that the AI moves fleets to take systems, so support ships should join fleets as they'll die otherwise.

It's rare because to capture a ship you have to disable it, and few ships remain after a fleet wins.

-Crissa


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, when I use boarding ships, I tend to make them "lone wolf" ships that fly around picking off enemy ships that aren't in a fleet...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekolis wrote:
Yeah, when I use boarding ships, I tend to make them "lone wolf" ships that fly around picking off enemy ships that aren't in a fleet...

Same here. Capping ships is sort of my hobby in the game. It isn't easy, and you're lucky if you break even. Sure is fun, though.


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Artful_Bodger
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 23, 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zwo_Dvoongar wrote:
ekolis wrote:
Yeah, when I use boarding ships, I tend to make them "lone wolf" ships that fly around picking off enemy ships that aren't in a fleet...

Same here. Capping ships is sort of my hobby in the game. It isn't easy, and you're lucky if you break even. Sure is fun, though.


One of the uses for engine destroying weapons, put one of these, a shield depleter and a couple of boarders on a Destroyer class, escort it with PD Frigates, (shield depleter, PD).

Have a mini fleet, 1 core boarder Dest (TF lead), 2 PD escort frigs in a task force set to "capture ship", 1 repair ship (construction yard is better) in a separate "don't get hurt" TF to deal with the prize & refresh the boarder next turn.


The organic Hyper Dense Module works best as your boarder ship keeps a sane distance from it's target firing HDDs even if the target is trying to ram the boarder.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artful_Bodger wrote:
Zwo_Dvoongar wrote:

Same here. Capping ships is sort of my hobby in the game. It isn't easy, and you're lucky if you break even. Sure is fun, though.


One of the uses for engine destroying weapons, put one of these, a shield depleter and a couple of boarders on a Destroyer class, escort it with PD Frigates, (shield depleter, PD).

Have a mini fleet, 1 core boarder Dest (TF lead), 2 PD escort frigs in a task force set to "capture ship", 1 repair ship (construction yard is better) in a separate "don't get hurt" TF to deal with the prize & refresh the boarder next turn.


The organic Hyper Dense Module works best as your boarder ship keeps a sane distance from it's target firing HDDs even if the target is trying to ram the boarder.


Some good ideas there, for sure! It turns out the HDG is only going to be useful for the defaults (when they randomly take organic path) and the Ukra Tal. None of the other organic tech empires use boarding ships.

Using small squadrons of boarding ships is a good idea, but the AI scripts aren't set up to handle fleets that way. It would be a serious project to script for special boarding fleets, and very difficult to justify, considering the limited pay-off.

I thought of one shortcut. Things are set up for only "Attack" and "Defense" types of ai fleets. Rather than trying to overhaul for a third type (which might even buck some hardcode), I think special names could be used on the fleets, and then it'd just be a matter of bypassing the regular routines, and writing replacements.

I may consider some squadron projects; there are other uses. Patrol squadrons make sense, and deep raiders penetrating rear areas in search of freighter traffic. I have insufficient clues at this time for the undertaking - I don't really understand coding movement beyond very simple point A and point B. Identifying tactical or strategic destinations is beyond me.


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you might recall, Kwok had difficulty getting the AI to understand what was near anything, including colonizers.

Which makes raiding parties really hard to program.

-Crissa


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it's a problem in core that sometimes elements of a turn around processed - such as research or diplomacy.

I just had a turn where I got handed a bunch of technology, as well as ruins, but my research didn't happen in a weird way; they only advanced about half of what it should have. All the events in the log that happened wouldn't have affected those.

Weird. And no way to really know.

-Crissa


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want "lone wolf" boarding ships then it is just a matter of re-directing the call to the attack ship or patrol ship minister. In theory boarding ships in fleets are set to a specific task force with the capture ship strategy but who knows if that works or not.

I had experimented with the analyze order for the AI but I don't think I was able to get the order executed properly via the scripts.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kwok! *hugs*

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