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Spaceempires.net :: Pollution standard for Balance Mod...? :: View topic
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Pollution standard for Balance Mod...?

 
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Add Pollution Events to the Balance Mod by default?
Yes
44%
 44%  [ 11 ]
Maybe (Elaborate...)
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
No
40%
 40%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 25

Author Message
CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Pollution standard for Balance Mod...? Reply with quote

In the next version of the Balance mod, I would like to include the pollution events add-on by default.

If you're not familiar with the pollution events add-on, what it does is that colonies that contain primarily industrial facilities will see their conditions decrease slowly over time. The rate that a colony will see its conditions deteriorate will depend on the number and type of facilities present and planet size. Log messages are generated whenever a planet drops from one conditions level to another (ie Mild to Unpleasant). There are several options to improve conditions, which include the use of Climate Control Facilities or to research the (new in v1.20) environment achievement, which has a similar effect as the facility.

It's a minor change to game play, but does add a little bit more emphasis on conditions and related areas such as population happiness.

Feel free to try the add-on here if you're not sure about it:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod-extras.php


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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mwyeoh
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 20, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am fine with this change. Interesting new tech you mentioned. Will there be many more?

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Stryker
Space Emperor


Joined: Dec 24, 2012

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I personally use both the pollution and research mods wih balance mod, I don't believe that they should be packaged as part of balance mod.

As balance mod now stands, it is basically "stock", with minimal changes to the actual gameplay. Adding either the pollution or the research to balance mod would start moving it away from that. I would prefer to see these types of changes incorporated into nova mod (which I hope you are still planning on releasing), rather than balance mod.

Secondly, the pollution + research extra combo is a very small download (less than 100k I believe) and thus not time consuming to download or install.


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Walt
Space Emperor


Joined: May 29, 2009
Location: OC, California

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stryker wrote:
Although I personally use both the pollution and research mods wih balance mod, I don't believe that they should be packaged as part of balance mod.

Agree. SEV is at the bleeding edge of game complexity. No need to twist the knife!

Merry Christmas, Captain and all.


. . . . OC Boardgaming: www.ocbg.net


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BlessedWrath
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2007

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's best as an option. If you're going to bundle the events with the Balance Mod, please include a toggle to shut it off. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I won't be the only person who would like the ability to choose whether to use the new events.

"The fastest path to defiance is the demand for obedience." ~Champion Blessed Wrath, Guardian Ministries


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Zap
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 14, 2012

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting point. I've personally never played with this, but if its really just a couple events that slowly deteriorate conditions that should fit in well with the changes to happiness since this is the only other value affected by conditions. (right?)

How do conditions work with the new happiness system?

In any case you can still shut events off entirely if the added points you will have to look out for then distract you.


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a technical standpoint, the pollution add-on is not a discrete event but a continuous one. Basically the presence of industrial facilities will decrease a planet's conditions over time. Log messages are created whenever the drop crosses a description threshold, "optimal" to "good" for example.

In the revised happiness system, there is a happiness penalty for conditions below mild. The penalty amount increases as conditions deteriorate.

I'd prefer to add the system by default (where I can build in the necessary descriptions for facilities etc) but it doesn't look like the support is there.

It's not really a micromanagement driver, only the heaviest industrial planets will be greatly affected and much of that effect can be offset by the Climate Control Facility and/or modifiers. Overall it's part of the effort to make population happiness less automatic and keep most of an empire's populace in the indifferent happiness sphere.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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Fyron
Galactic Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does increase the learning curve, though. New players will not be aware of the need to pre-plan conditions improvement plants on their large worlds and be at a disadvantage. This is something we encountered with Adamant Mod's primitive labor unrest system.

Would it be possible to create a log message the first time a planet's conditions start degrading in an empire? This would be for the first time the value goes down, without regard to crossing the label threshholds. The log entry would make the mechanic clear to new players, alerting them that problems could occur in the future if they don't plan ahead. Experienced players would just see this log message once per game and learn to ignore it.


Smarter than your average Texrak.


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could add a one-time log message (you would have to use the script memory storage for it) but if pollution was standard then the facilities that cause conditions to worsen would mention it in their ability description.

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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Fyron
Galactic Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most players aren't going to read all the text in all the item descriptions. This is especially true of players that have played the game before, but are new to a particular mod.

Smarter than your average Texrak.


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