In the honorverse I think the main issue is that WPs have only a certain capacity (something like 30 dreadnoughts) before they become unstable and need time to stabilize. Going through with such limited numbers , and no room to maneuver against superior forces and fixed defenses is not a particularly healthy idea.
IIRC that's a function of the size of the warp point. some are larger/more stable than others. Back to top
actually if anyone would be willing to take a wack at a race portrait for the peeps, I'd appreciate it. I think there's a eruo book cover out there with prictart's picture on it, but i don't know about the guy she replaced.
Also, If anyone(*coughgurachncough*) wants to, I was thinking of making a set of grayson, andermani, sileasian, ect flags and race portraits and using them for neutral players. They could just use the ships that already exist.
So the Solarian League is the "evil empire" of the Honorverse huh? I never read any of the books that dealt with them.
Hmm... Anderman Empire is basically ruled by an interstellar feudal warlord and eventually partially annexed Silesia. Not particularly agressive, but they paint "INTRUDERS KEEP OUT" on their borders in big bold letters.
Silesia was an interstellar regime, but it was never stable and had so much infighting between regions (and occasional revolts) that both Anderman and Manticore sent their new officers there to gain practical experience. Eventually, after Haven tried to take over by force, Silesia's central government agreed to be peacefully annexed and divided the regional governments between Anderman and Manticore.
Sidemore is a minor power between Manticore and the former Silesia. It is strongly affiliated with Manticore, but exists as a seperate political entity.
There's a LOT of minor powers. Unfortunately, the books I've read were centered around the Haven-Manticore war.
actually if anyone would be willing to take a wack at a race portrait for the peeps, I'd appreciate it. I think there's a eruo book cover out there with prictart's picture on it, but i don't know about the guy she replaced.
Also, If anyone(*coughgurachncough*) wants to, I was thinking of making a set of grayson, andermani, sileasian, ect flags and race portraits and using them for neutral players. They could just use the ships that already exist.
The largest image of Pritchard I could find is pretty tiny, I'm afraid, but I had a bit of a quick-n-dirty stab at it anyway.
I scaled it up a bit and composited it with some spacy background stuff but there is only so much you can do to to enlarge a small image.
It looks okay at 256 but any larger and it starts to show.
In any case, Pritchard only really came into power after the main Haven-Manticore conflicts.
If I get some time I may see if I can whip up a reasonable representation of Pierre or St. Just.
Besides, not much point in worrying about details like this unless someone is keen to have a stab at creating the actual mod.
It just wouldnt feel right playing with HH style ships without some of the actual mechanics.
I would be happy to assist with a bit of graphic stuff or tweaking shipsets and such, but I'm afraid I just don't have time to do a full mod at the moment. SEV Visual Mods:
Black UI Reduced Size Shipsets Back to top
Hi... I'm freshly registered here, but I've been lurking off and on (mostly off) for years... As it happens, I've been thinking about the idea of an HH mod for se5 for about a year now. At first, I thought I'd have to cut-n-paste a shipset that would sort of look HH, but then I found the Manticore shipset here in forums. I was rather excited, and started seriously working on ideas for a mod...
I made an HH mod for se4 a year or two ago... Using the Manticore shipset for se4, I just copied the manticore shipset -twice- to make Haven & Andermani shipsets... I used some of Kwayne's se4 race pics -the human ones- not sure what races they were supposed to be for...
Anyway, I didn't go much beyond the basics... Of course its easier to do a mod for se4 than for se5... But, I'm well on the way to working up some solid ideas of how to do an se5 HH mod... I have a lot of little questions about game mechanics that I may post in the modding section...
Perhaps my two biggest issues right now are 1) I'm bad at feeling overwhelmed, which I sort of do right now mainly because I'm trying think how to keep this HH mod compatible with another mod that I'm already working on & 2) there are a few things about se5 that I can't seem to wrap my head around - the biggest problem I having in doing my own mods is that I do not understand the damage-at-range formula for weapons comps... Is there some utility for that somewhere or something? Back to top
Well, damage at range is a bit complex, but I'll take a stab at it.
Code:
Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := (12 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 3)) - iif([%Range%] > Min(140, (([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 80), 10000, 0)
Code:
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula := (18 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 3)) - iif([%Range%] > Min(140, (([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 80), 10000, 0)
the actual damage calculation is: (18 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 3)) It's pretty simple.
damage decreasing over range is not used in this example unfortunately, but if we were to add it, it would come directly after the damage formula. (18 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 3)) - ([%Range%] * 1) obviously you'd not actually program a *1 modifier, but... it's an example.
the most important thing to remember is the way max range is done. In this example Range maxes at 140. But, depending on tech level it might be capped lower. "(([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 80" gives you a range cap of 80 but also increases the range by 4 for each level beyond the first.
Range cap works by subtracting 10000 from the damage past a certain point. Back to top
Ok, so "(400 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 25))" is the damage part? Meaning if it is Level 3, the damage is 450?
And "- (([%Range%] / 10) * 0.00)" is the damage decrease over range part? If the range is 150, would this mean it subtracts 15 from the damage? Making the damage 435?
What is "iif"? Is that like an "if" with a stutter?
Ok, did I get those parts right? And what does the rest of it " - iif([%Range%] > Min(180, (([%Level%] - 1) * 10) + 80), 10000, 0)" mean in plain English?
Even though it meant having a different comp entry for each level, I still think I prefer se4's method... Speaking of which, in the SE5_Modding.pdf, it makes "Weapon Space Min/Max Damage At Range" sound like it works like se4... Does it? Or is it different? Or is it another one of those things in se5 that was never enabled? I notice all the game's stock comps show " 0.0" for that value... Thanks! (and thanks in advance) Back to top
Math isn't greek, break apart the equations.
the first part seems right.
Yes but no. It is multiplied by a zero constant so that shouldn't do that for this weapon, but it will for other ones. (unless that is a typo.)
iif is inline if according to wikipedia. It breaks the statement into three parts.
Example iif(mathematical expression, true situation, false situation)
it seems to be the part adjusting the damage over distance. I can't tell. I don't program. Back to top
Math isn't greek, break apart the equations.
the first part seems right.
Yes but no. It is multiplied by a zero constant so that shouldn't do that for this weapon, but it will for other ones. (unless that is a typo.)
iif is inline if according to wikipedia. It breaks the statement into three parts.
Example iif(mathematical expression, true situation, false situation)
it seems to be the part adjusting the damage over distance. I can't tell. I don't program.
Close, but not quite, see below.
DXM wrote:
Err, ok... Math is Greek to me, all of it not just Pi... I totally do not do manual HTML, either...
Ok, from the game's comp file... Wave - Motion Gun:
Ok, so "(400 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 25))" is the damage part? Meaning if it is Level 3, the damage is 450?
Correct!
Quote:
And "- (([%Range%] / 10) * 0.00)" is the damage decrease over range part? If the range is 150, would this mean it subtracts 15 from the damage? Making the damage 435?
not really. As VVV mentioned, this formula uses a *0 modifier to cancel out this part of the equation, thus this weapon does not have damage decrease over range. A modifier greater than 0 would result in damage reduction over range.
Quote:
What is "iif"? Is that like an "if" with a stutter?
See VVV's comment
Quote:
Ok, did I get those parts right? And what does the rest of it " - iif([%Range%] > Min(180, (([%Level%] - 1) * 10) + 80), 10000, 0)" mean in plain English?
Code:
-
subtract
Code:
iif
inline if
Code:
([%Range%] >
this is a logic evaluation. If it's true it returns the value A, if false it returns value B.
Code:
Min
Use the lower of the two values in parentheses
Code:
(180, (([%Level%] - 1) * 10) + 80),
180 is the absolute max range, the other part is a level based range increase formula, in this case the range starts at 80, then increases by 10 each level until it reaches the cap of 180 at level 11.
Code:
10000,
This is value A. If the range is greater than either of the two values mentioned earlier this number gets subtracted from the weapon damage.
Code:
0)
Value B, this is returned if Range is equal or less than the weapon's max range.
Quote:
Even though it meant having a different comp entry for each level, I still think I prefer se4's method... Speaking of which, in the SE5_Modding.pdf, it makes "Weapon Space Min/Max Damage At Range" sound like it works like se4... Does it? Or is it different? Or is it another one of those things in se5 that was never enabled? I notice all the game's stock comps show " 0.0" for that value... Thanks! (and thanks in advance)
Um... check out the damage formulae in Kwok's balance mod. Back to top
ok. I thought it was a range thing but that didn't make sense in context.
Yeah it's kinda counter intuitive. Also weapons mounts can sometimes up the base damage to higher than 10k thus giving the weapon essentially unlimited range. Of course it does little damage at higher range, but it screws with the way the AI thinks by tricking the AI into thinking it's at an effective range when it's weapons barely do any damage. you can fix this by replacing the 10000 with 100000. Back to top
Okay... Now, 400 is the base damage... The next part, Level-1*25, is the level modifier... The next part, Range/10*0, would be the decrease at range modifier if it was * something greater than 0... I'm still not sure I totally understand how the rest of the formula works... But, if I understand what you're saying, the only other parts I need to be interested in is the 180 which is the max possible range... and Level-1*10+80; where 10 is the amount it increases per level & 80 is the beginning range...
And all the rest of it is essentially of no interest to me for the purpose of modding... Have I got that right?
Edit: Err, Balance Mod v1.1 that I found on my computer has 0.0 value for all "Weapon Space Min Damage At Range", "Weapon Space Max Damage At Range" & "Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range" fields... Was I supposed to look at a different version? Back to top
Yes, the last part of the statement(after iif) makes sure that any target past the weapon's range takes no damage(I believe this is more for seekers that move past their range)
The multiplier of 0.0 in (([%Range%] / 10) * 0.00) does tell you that the damage does not decrease over range. I imagine that the entire statement was not removed to make the formula's uniform?
There are much newer versions of BM our there; the newest is 1.19h, IIRC. Back to top
Three things... 1) What does IIRC mean? 2) Would altering the last part of the formula result in seekers with unlimited range? Much longer ranges might be of use in an HH mod... 3) Do newer BM versions have values other than 0.0 for the fields I mentioned? Back to top
taking out the 10000 would essentially remove range caps completely. I don't think it's a good idea. From what I've heard the game may not DISPLAY ranges over 300 but it still calculates them properly.
yes newer versions of BM have weapons with range dissipation. Back to top
taking out the 10000 would essentially remove range caps completely. I don't think it's a good idea. From what I've heard the game may not DISPLAY ranges over 300 but it still calculates them properly.
yes newer versions of BM have weapons with range dissipation.
Ah, IIRC, gotcha...
Yes, without being able to see the seekers it would be kind of pointless...
Okay, just downloaded BM 1.19i beta -latest version according to Kwok's site- I found all weapons in the components data file to have either 0 or 0.0 value for "Weapon Space Min Damage At Range", "Weapon Space Max Damage At Range" & "Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range" lines... So, I'm still not seeing any usage of these properties for weapons... Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? Back to top
Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := (56 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 4)) - ([%Range%] * 0.3) - iif([%Range%] > Min(120, (([%Level%] - 1) * 5) + 80), 10000, 0)
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula := (64 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 4)) - ([%Range%] * 0.3) - iif([%Range%] > Min(120, (([%Level%] - 1) * 5) + 80), 10000, 0)
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier Formula := 0 - ([%Range%] * 0.25)
That^ is the section of code being discussed. This comes from the entry for "Anti-Proton Beam" in BM.
Code:
Weapon Space Min Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Max Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range := 0.0
that^ seems to be what you're thinking of.
Why do the blank entries exist? I have no idea... But we don't need them.
Code:
Weapon Space Min Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Max Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := (20 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 5)) - (([%Range%] / 10) * 1.67) - iif([%Range%] > Min(90, (([%Level%] - 1) * 10) + 30), 10000, 0)
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula := (23 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 5)) - (([%Range%] / 10) * 1.67) - iif([%Range%] > Min(90, (([%Level%] - 1) * 10) + 30), 10000, 0)
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier Formula := 0 - [%Range%]
That^ is the equivalent bits of code from stock.
why did Aaron even bother coding in those data fields? Um... SE5 has a lot of unimplemented features. Just ignore them and work around them. Maybe we should make a full list of unimplemented features... It'd save time to have a list to point at. Back to top
Yes those entries were what I was asking about, their descriptions in the se5_modding.pdf file made it sound like they might be like the damage-at-range entries in se4...
Ya know; "Weapon Damage At Rng := 30 30 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Back to top
well, you can try it to find out. For an easy test do it with Depleted Uranium cannons. You start with that weapon so you can easily see the difference when you start a game. Back to top
Guess i started something interesting... Sorry about lack of maintenance on my sets, got sick with the crud in February and I've been in and out of it untill just recently. Also got the internet back at the house, so I've been catching up on 11 months worth of web comics, cracked articles ect.
IIRC where I left off with the peep set was I needed to scale it so it matches the manty set and do a little polishing(proper race portrait, ship names, firing points) , now I need a favor: If any of yall are interested, take the X class file from the manty and peep set, put it in the shipset viewer, and open them side by side(you can run multiple instances of the viewer apparently).
I need to figure out, do I scale the peeps up, or the manty's down(i'm leaning towards scaling the peeps up). Also in both sets, you think the colony and freighter are too big?(they are supposed to be big, i just don't know if I want them THAT big...) Back to top
did you try comparing them with a third shipset? that would give you a more objective answer. Another idea is to do a test game and compare the relative sizes of ship models in the combat simulator. Back to top
Hi, Hugh! Hmm, I had terrible allergies starting in Feb & lasting till Apr or even May in '09, '10 & '11... But not this year, thank God! Glad you're feeling better! May I pester you with a question? The same question those of us who can't make shipsets always ask those who can. Are ya gonna do more? Specifically, which -if any- additional Honorverse races do you have planned? Andermani? Grayson? Mesa? Silesia? Solarian? No pressure! Just asking. BTW, I've been checking, and I can already say that finding race pics & flag pics is gonna be rather difficult... I've found a Grayson Space Navy logo, which has those very words on it, which doesn't really seem appropriate for a race flag. Might could photoshop it though... Also found an Andermani Navy logo which looks like the center portion of a flag. If expanded, that could work... And a Silesian logo. It's tiny, though. Only 55x55 pix. Still, better than nothing. Not a trace of a Solarian logo or any decent race pics, unfortunately. Back to top
...which -if any- additional Honorverse races do you have planned? Andermani? Grayson? Mesa? Silesia? Solarian? No pressure! Just asking. BTW, I've been checking, and I can already say that finding race pics & flag pics is gonna be rather difficult... I've found a Grayson Space Navy logo, which has those very words on it, which doesn't really seem appropriate for a race flag. Might could photoshop it though... Also found an Andermani Navy logo which looks like the center portion of a flag. If expanded, that could work... And a Silesian logo. It's tiny, though. Only 55x55 pix. Still, better than nothing. Not a trace of a Solarian logo or any decent race pics, unfortunately.
Yeah, not a lot to work with on the minor players and the Sollies.
I actually started looking at the Graysons, Andies and Solarians when I did the Manty and Haven flags, but it soon became obvious that a decent job is going to require a fair bit of work.
I'd be happy to have a stab at it, if it looks likely that some more ships and a workable mod are also likely to appear.
Race portraits are likely to be a bigger problem, but since this is just Napoleonic ship combat in space, we could probably get by with some adaptations of early 20th Century Naval portraits, overlaid over some spacey backgrounds.
I did something similar when I was looking for a replacement for the stock Terran race pic.
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For an easy test do it with Depleted Uranium cannons. You start with that weapon so you can easily see the difference when you start a game.
Are ya gonna do more? 
No pressure! Just asking. BTW, I've been checking, and I can already say that finding race pics & flag pics is gonna be rather difficult... I've found a Grayson Space Navy logo, which has those very words on it, which doesn't really seem appropriate for a race flag. Might could photoshop it though... Also found an Andermani Navy logo which looks like the center portion of a flag. If expanded, that could work... And a Silesian logo. It's tiny, though. Only 55x55 pix. Still, better than nothing. Not a trace of a Solarian logo or any decent race pics, unfortunately.
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