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Spaceempires.net :: What do you want to see in a Star Trek mod? :: View topic
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What do you want to see in a Star Trek mod?
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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekolis wrote:
You didn't misspell "robotoid" somewhere did you?
I don't think I did anything that would affect those... I'll check later today.

The Biquadseptium issue was stupid... There's the line where you put in: get_tech_level = [%Level%]

Well I left out the = and everything after it... Quick easy fix. I still need to tweak a few more things too. the Time stasis cargo component has a now useless ability, I think I need to take out the empire storage completely and recost it(downward).


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found something while looking into the issue with robotoid factories.

BM 1.19h (which I used as a base) isn't coded to give you regular Robotoid factories in a max tech game. you can still build them but it doesn't give them to you at start. It does give you system robotoid factories though.


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

?

In my max tech games the Robotoid Factory appears at level 3 as expected.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainKwok wrote:
?

In my max tech games the Robotoid Factory appears at level 3 as expected.
Really? the Regular one not the system one? hmm... I guess I'll just edit 2.0.2 to fix it.

Erm... actually since I'm adding in AI races it'll be 2.1.0.

Other fixes:
1;modify the Time-stasis storage ship component
2;do like the one guy suggested and change all the ordnance amounts(planned)
3;change computers to be a theoretical field
4;fix biquadseptium
5;add shipsets/ai races for the startrek races
6; more stuff, that i don't remember...


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also gonna be packaging the shipsets in the 2.1.0 release as there's the issue of how they have standard flags, not small flags. Well, that and I'm modifying Tauri to use as Hirogen, ISC to use as Vidiian, and Lyran to use as Orion. Then there's the Kzinti set which needed a few changes too.

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Lorq13
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 03, 2007

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it intended to allow all players to colonize class h planets? They are colonized with rock modules, maybe so the AI can colonize without re-writing scripts?

Also, what do the classes mean(planetary classes)? It seems to be random AFAICT.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorq13 wrote:
Is it intended to allow all players to colonize class h planets? They are colonized with rock modules, maybe so the AI can colonize without re-writing scripts?

Also, what do the classes mean(planetary classes)? It seems to be random AFAICT.
"Class" is simply what they're called in star trek. Earth is considered to be a "Class-M" planet.

see: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Planetary_classification

P has never been used on screen but has been used in the star charts books.

Yeah, rock, gas, and ice modules are in as AI support. rock is H, ice is P, and gas is either K or L I forget which. V2.1.0 will not have them.


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Lorq13
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 03, 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks.

I like the idea of letting the AI use balance mod for AI while letting the player use the Star Trek races. It makes playing much more fun than other mods that have little to no AI.

It does look promising, can't wait to try it out against other people.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool. Smile I'm in the process of adding ship sets for the 15 races in the game so far. And I'm working on figuring out how to get the ai to use the new colony modules. once that's done I'll take out the legacy colonizers. I'm also working on making ai files to at least get the st races to do something. even if full ai support is lacking. I'd love watching the klingons go at it with the Xi'chung.

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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I need ideas. I'm writing out the AI data for races which includes races picks and I'm not sure what to do for all the races.

Note: Bajorans, Kazon, Suliban, voth, and Xindi are planned for a later version.
note2: since human players will choose a second race in high games(2030) I need to configure the AIs to do the same, thus at the end of the AI racial traits is a second trait that they'll only have in games with 2030 points. Since i want to avoid repitition many of these will have to be largely arbitrary, but I've tried to choose traits that make some sense.
Note3: I'm on vacation so I don't have a list of possible traits handy. It's probable that I don't remember them all.

here's what I've got so far:

8472 <racename
8472 <racial picks for low RP(1000)
Religious, +10% shipyard rate, +ground combat damage <med(1030)
Federation <high RP(2030) (they became rather Fascinated with the Federation)

-------
Bajoran
Bajoran
+research, +Intel, +minerals production, +organics production(or maybe +happiness?), no spaceports
Ferengi
-------
Borg
Borg, -Intel, -research, +10% shipyard rate(they get this even in a 1000 rp game)
no spaceports, +5% shipyard rate, +1 ship speed, +mineral production
?(don't know who to put as a second)
---------
Breen
Breen
+weapon damage, +beam attack, +ground combat, +reproduction
?
-----------
Cardassians
Cardassian
+Intel, ?
?
-----------
Dominion
Dominion
+Organics production, +1 ship speed, ?
?
----------
Federation
Federation
+research, +1 ship speed, ?
Borg
----------
Ferengi
Ferengi
no spaceports, +storage space
Hirogen
----------
Gorn
Gorn
+weapon damage, +beam attack, +ground combat, ?
Kzinti
----------
Hirogen
Hirogen, -research, ?
no spaceports, ?
?
----------
Kazon
Kazon
+Intel, +mineral production, +organic production, +radioactives production, +1 ship speed
Vidiian
----------
klingon
klingon
+beam attack, +environmental resistance, ?
?
----------
Kzinti
kzinti
?
----------
Orion
orion
+intel, ?
8472
----------
Romulan
romulan
+intel, +research, ?
Suliban
----------
Suliban
suliban
+ground combat, ?
Voth
----------
Tholian
tholian
+radioactives production, +5% shipyards, ?
Gorn
----------
Vidiian
vidiian
+research, ?
bajoran
----------
Voth
voth
+environmental resistance, reduced maintenance, ?
Orion
----------
xindi
xindi
+reproduction, ?
tholian

And that's it for MAIN empires. now for minors. Smile As we all know, minor galactic powers outnumber the major ones in star trek by a ratio of at least 3 to 1. So now for minors.

Acamarian raiders(not the main race, the offshoot that Enterprise-d had to deal with. I'm still thinking about making the main race a major)
cardassian
+resource something...
?
Kzinti
----------
FGC-47 beings Isabella's race: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Isabella
Breen(because of their energy siphoning powers)
?
tholian

Yeah, I'm gonna have to look a bit more into picking races.

EDIT: format fixes.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoo! almost done. I'll try to upload the new list of racial traits soon. I've modified several greatly.

I welcome any advice people have on what abilities and technology the various races should have at their disposal.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, if I read this correctly, with a high race points setting, you could actually pick two primary race traits, and you've listed the ones that might be defaults for AI's?

In that case, I wonder why the Federation would be so interested in Borg culture/tech... seems more like the Borg are interested in the Federation... or maybe even the Dominion?

And I always thought the Romulans used a lot of old Klingon ships, so maybe Romulans could pick Klingon as a secondary trait? Unless Suliban fits better; I'm not familiar with that race!

And maybe Breen could pick Federation as a secondary trait... weren't they at least nominally aligned with the Federation - not to mention the Federation gets some bonuses that would complement the Breen nicely!

I hope the Borg trait provides some neato ship-capture techs, because otherwise they won't be the same galactic menace, what with a research penalty! Maybe they should have a trade penalty instead?

Cardassians like superweapons, don't they? Maybe a +damage trait for them?

The Tholians are rather xenophobic, right? Maybe they could have a trade penalty, but a bonus to, oh, I dunno, ground combat or something? Just TRY and do a Vulcan nerve pinch on one of those guys!


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekolis wrote:
Maybe they should have a trade penalty instead?


Trade penalties don't work, anything negative is rounded to zero.

I haven't had a chance to fiddle with this mod. Does the AI in version 2.0 work?

Based on BM, I personally think +facility space is an "I win" trait and no spaceports, +organics, and +rads are "I lose" traits.

In BM minerals are king. Poking through the data files for Warp 10 it looks like minerals are still the dominant resource. Maybe if the race uses organic or crystullargy tech org or rad bonuses are useful.

I don't quite understand the benefit of having two cultures. Wouldn't specializing in only one culture be more efficient?


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Lorq13
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 03, 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing 2.0, and the AI seems to be a working copy of BM's AI. Players can colonize 2 planets types(being fixed, I'm told), but otherwise they use all BM items for ship construction.

Giving 2 races to players could make some overpowered combo's. The other mod I've seen this in was the Babylon 5 mod, where you could pick multiple racial traits. There were some combination that were unbalanced IMHO and made a game more min-maxing and less fun.

I've played partial games with 8472 and Cardassians, and it is a lot of fun, even against stock BM races. I can't wait for real ST races to be running.

8472 ships do have higher org requirements than minerals, so +org extraction is not necessarily an I lose trait. I would still say it is weaker than +facility space, though.


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TheThirdEye
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+facility space is very powerful (perhaps having -cargo space to offset it, making it harder to defend the planets?).
+organics is only (possibly) worth it if the race is organic.

Perhaps sets of traits that work together could be setup. Give each race a chance of a given set. If there are enough different sets then there should not be a problem of them being common/repetitive, and you should be able to assign types to different groups of races. This way the aggressive races such as klingons, romulans, etc... can be given an aggressive set, and others can be given friendly/trade sets.
This prevents most min/maxing and makes AIs choices more 'sane'.
It would probably be a fair bit of work to setup, but would make it easier afterwards to arrange different race setups.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments. Very Happy
ekolis wrote:
Hmm, if I read this correctly, with a high race points setting, you could actually pick two primary race traits, and you've listed the ones that might be defaults for AI's?
Correct, some are semi-random as I made a conscious effort to avoid duplicates.
Quote:
In that case, I wonder why the Federation would be so interested in Borg culture/tech... seems more like the Borg are interested in the Federation... or maybe even the Dominion?
during Voyager era the Feds reverse engineered a lot of Borg tech. They had several former drones helping them with this(including 7 of 9)
Quote:
And I always thought the Romulans used a lot of old Klingon ships, so maybe Romulans could pick Klingon as a secondary trait? Unless Suliban fits better; I'm not familiar with that race!
look at the chart below, I actually thought of that but did the opposite. Klingons get Romulan as a secondary trait. Romulans got Suliban because well... The Suliban race was given tech and genetic enhancements by beings from the future. Why wouldn't the Romulans want that?
Quote:
And maybe Breen could pick Federation as a secondary trait... weren't they at least nominally aligned with the Federation - not to mention the Federation gets some bonuses that would complement the Breen nicely!
They had a NAP until the Dominion war started. Then the Breen allied themselves with the Dominion and committed to all-out war against the Feds and their allies. I gave them Klingon... mostly because I couldn't think of something else.
Quote:
I hope the Borg trait provides some neato ship-capture techs, because otherwise they won't be the same galactic menace, what with a research penalty! Maybe they should have a trade penalty instead?
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Thalaron_radiation Hehe... In the game it kills the crew of the ship you hit with it. Yeah in the show the Borg assimilate the crew, but you can't simulate that in SE5 so I had to settle for assimilating ships.
Quote:
Cardassians like superweapons, don't they? Maybe a +damage trait for them?
Maybe, I'll have to look into that one.
Quote:
The Tholians are rather xenophobic, right? Maybe they could have a trade penalty, but a bonus to, oh, I dunno, ground combat or something? Just TRY and do a Vulcan nerve pinch on one of those guys!
a GC bonus does make sense in hindsight. Not sure what malus to give them though.
Skyburn wrote:
Based on BM, I personally think +facility space is an "I win" trait and no spaceports, +organics, and +rads are "I lose" traits.
+facil and +org are not worth the same amount. +facil costs 20 point while +org only costs 5.
Quote:
In BM minerals are king. Poking through the data files for Warp 10 it looks like minerals are still the dominant resource. Maybe if the race uses organic or crystullargy tech org or rad bonuses are useful.
Species 8472 DOES use organic ships.
Quote:
I don't quite understand the benefit of having two cultures. Wouldn't specializing in only one culture be more efficient?
It gives you more options. Some races have somewhat limited weapons techs. Others have a LOT of weapon options but more non-weapon techs.
Lorq13 wrote:
I've been playing 2.0, and the AI seems to be a working copy of BM's AI. Players can colonize 2 planets types(being fixed, I'm told), but otherwise they use all BM items for ship construction.
Actualyl that's only true if you choose either M or K when starting. If you start as the others you get 2 colony MODULES when starting but they colonize the same type of planet. 2.1.0 will have a fix for this.
Quote:
Giving 2 races to players could make some overpowered combo's. The other mod I've seen this in was the Babylon 5 mod, where you could pick multiple racial traits. There were some combination that were unbalanced IMHO and made a game more min-maxing and less fun.
There's less unique techs in this game. Hopefully it won't have the same issues. Anyone can (eventually) research Quantum slipstream drive which is almost as good as Transwarp. Etc...
Quote:
I've played partial games with 8472 and Cardassians, and it is a lot of fun, even against stock BM races. I can't wait for real ST races to be running.
same here.
Quote:
8472 ships do have higher org requirements than minerals, so +org extraction is not necessarily an I lose trait. I would still say it is weaker than +facility space, though.
Oh and they have Bio-Maulers... Those take a LOT of organics.
TheThirdEye wrote:
+facility space is very powerful (perhaps having -cargo space to offset it, making it harder to defend the planets?).
+organics is only (possibly) worth it if the race is organic.
it's offset by being 20 points. +org is only 5.
Quote:
Perhaps sets of traits that work together could be setup. Give each race a chance of a given set. If there are enough different sets then there should not be a problem of them being common/repetitive, and you should be able to assign types to different groups of races. This way the aggressive races such as klingons, romulans, etc... can be given an aggressive set, and others can be given friendly/trade sets.
that's require defining more than one race setup, which could be done and might be hilarious. It'd be possible to see multiple Romulan or Klingon factions slugging it out with each other.
Quote:
This prevents most min/maxing and makes AIs choices more 'sane'.
It would probably be a fair bit of work to setup, but would make it easier afterwards to arrange different race setups.
I'll probably end up making more than one version eventually.

Now for the table of traits I came up with over the last few days:
- 8472, Deeply Religious, Hardy Industrialists, Physical Strength, [] Federation
- Bajoran*, Smart, Cunning, Mining Aptitude. Farming Aptitude, Naturally Happy, Lucky, [] Ferengi
- Borg, Dumb, Foolish, Builders, Hardy Industrialists, Natural Merchants, Mining Aptitude, Emotionless, Naturally Depressed, Mechanoids [] Cardassian
- Breen, Brave, Physical Strength, High Reproduction, Environmental Weakness, Hardy Industrialists, Builders, Refining Aptitude [] Klingon
- Cardassian, Cunning, Builders, Advanced Storage Techniques [] Dominion
- Dominion, Farming Aptitude, Cunning, Propulsion Experts, Psychic [] Kazon
- Federation, Smart, Propulsion Experts, Advanced Power Conservation, Mining Aptitude [] Borg
- Ferengi, Natural Merchants, Advanced Storage Techniques, [] Hirogen
- Gorn, Brave, Physical Strength, Organic Manipulation [], Kzinti
- Hirogen, Dumb, Ancient Race, Natural Merchants, Advanced Power Conservation [] Breen
- Kazon*, Cunning, Mining Aptitude, Farming Aptitude, Refining Aptitude, Propulsion Experts [] Vidiian
- Klingon, Brave, Environmental Resistance, Physical Strength, Advanced Power Conservation, Mining Aptitude [] Romulan
- Kzinti, Lucky, Ancient Race, Physical Strength, Mining Aptitude [] Xindi
- Orion, Naturally Depressed, Cunning, Emotionless, Temporal Knowledge, Brave [] 8472
- Romulan, Cunning, Smart, Crystallurgy [] Suliban
- Suliban*, Bunglers, Physical Strength, crystallurgy, Lucky, Refining Aptitude [] Voth
- Tholian, Refining Aptitude, Builders, Organic Manipulation [] Gorn
- Vidiian, Smart, Farming Aptitude, Lucky, Propulsion Experts, Builders [] Bajoran
- Voth*, Environmental Resistance, Advanced Power Conservation, Ancient Race, [] Orion
- Xindi*, High Reproduction, Lucky, Brave, Physical Strength, Propulsion Experts [] Tholian

I'll have to tweak a few(such as Vidiians) as I haven't programmed some races in yet. What do you guys think of this setup?

EDIT: I've been thinking and it looks like I CAN program in traits for +/- weapon damage, and +/- trade%. Do you think trade +10% is worth 5 points? what about weapon damage +10% worth 10 points?


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KineticShipyards
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 27, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely make the Tholians crystalline [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tholian] and pick something non-crystalline for the Romulans.

8472 should be organic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_8472].

Suliban maybe temporal? Not sure.

-----------------------------------------------------
Offtopic: What I always wanted was a way for each race to specify multipliers on how much they value certain technologies or racial traits. It wouldn't make the decisions for them, but it would act as a weighing factor in however the AI scripts chose to make decisions. So you might say something like this in a race definition file:

Tholian_weights.txt
Crystalline * 3
Plasma Missile * 0.5
Fighters * 2

That would mean the Tholian would be 3x more likely to choose Crystalline than average; half as likely to put points into plasma missiles; twice as likely for fighters. And they'd value tech-trades for fighters more highly, etc. While you could do that with custom scripts per race, it'd be easier to maintain one script that knew how to deal with these racial weights.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I like the weights idea... Since AI scripts are what decides what race traits and techs an AI chooses, and scripts can read datafiles (I think), that might actually be possible... and it would probably save Kwok some headaches with the custom scripts per AI!

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crap... I forgot something. ALL the new main races have access to some sort of the old racial tech. 8472 has all of the Organic stuff already and the same is true of tholians and Crystalline.

Oh and the setup scripts always give you the same traits.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently you CAN randomize setup! WHoo! Not sure exactly how to do it right just yet though...

here's the data table:
---revamped old stuff:
8472;; OA OS OT OW PW
Borg;; TT
Breen;; CA OS TW
Cardassian;; RT
Dominion;; OT
federation;; TT
ferengi;; PW
gorn;; CT
hirogen;; RT CA CS
klingon;; TW
kzinti;; PT RT
Orion;; PT
romulan;; PT
Tholian;; CA CS CT CW
Vidiian;; OT CA

Planned:
Acamarian; CW
Andorian; CT, CS, TW
Bajoran; OW, RT
Kazon;
Suliban; OT, TT, TW
Voth;
Vulcan;
Xindi;

categories:
Crystalline; armor***, weapons**, ships***, technology***
Organic; armor*, weapons**, ships**, technology****
psychic; weapons**, technology**
religious; technology****
temporal; weapons***, technology**

I'm thinking of dropping the CA and OA fields and merging them back into tech... (crystalline and Organic Armor)


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I programmed all the ai files, but they still don't colonize... Sad At least I have semi-workable ais for the Star Trek races. Smile

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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly enough I'm having the same problem adapting the BM scripts in my mod. Does the AI not design colonizers, or does it design them but won't build them?

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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyburn wrote:
Oddly enough I'm having the same problem adapting the BM scripts in my mod. Does the AI not design colonizers, or does it design them but won't build them?
I'm going to check the AI construction script. I'm 90% sure that my changes to the designcreation script aren't the issue. But well... I don't remember how to take over for an AI. Hmmm... Maybe it's in the Wiki? *scurries off to look*


I don't see it.


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Hazcom13
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 17, 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the main menu, select "players" and you can select or de-select human control for each player.

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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah, thanks. Smile

According to kwok the issue is that I need to modify Script_AI_GlobalSettings.txt and Script_AI_Orders_Ships.txt. I'll try that and see.


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