Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject: Stellar Object vs Cloak + SFB Mod Ideas
I was going through the Modding 101...and my SFB book...and I was wondering...
Obfuscation/Cloak is an ability of stellar objects, IE Nebula/Storms...
What I was wondering is if there was some way to mod a stellar object to counter-act a cloak? Like a space dust, or solar halo, or what have you...that will allow a cloaked ship to be seen by another ship?
Any thoughts?
Kana
Last edited by Kana on Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:23 am; edited 1 time in total Back to top
I am not aware of any method of doing such a thing. As far as I can tell, you can only detect cloaked ships if you own the object with the scanning ability. I have never tried giving the ability to a planet and seeing if it worked once I colonized the planet. However, I doubt it would work, given that all of the other facility/component abilities I have tested on planets did not seem to work (such as resource production bonuses).
I feel bad about frequently having to post that your excellent ideas are not feasible in SEIV. Smarter than your average Texrak. Back to top
No worries...I'll just finally decided I don't want an SFB mod for SEIV, and have to just wait ever so patiently, while pulling my hair out, and walking around talking to myself, for SEV to come out...
As for working or to working I guess if you can't really put it on a planet, you can't assign it to a storm sector, or a full nebula, or asteriod sector, or what have you...?!?
And if you liked that, you should see the 32 item wish list I wrote up for SEV...I've never bothered to post it though...
Don't give up hope! Surely, there will have to be some compromises, but the essence of SFB can definitely be modded into SEIV... Smarter than your average Texrak. Back to top
Oh I agree...and I have considered some of the compromises...it's just like you said coming up with wonderful ideas, that just don't work tends to just make you feel blah...speaking of ideas...I want to send you a file about a SFB piece of equipment, and I would like to see how you would mod it...
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: Andromedan Power Absorber Panels
How do PA Panels Work?
Andromedan Power-Absorber (PA) panels are a regular source of confusion, in particular over the interaction between degradation, leak points, energy, and internals. The order of resolution always goes: degradation, leaks, then energy. Also, 'toggling' of PA panels (voluntarily lowering them to release stored power) is often confusing.
Resolving a Volley
A volley is fired on a given PA panel bank of an Andromedan ship. If the PA bank is shut down or unpowered, then the entire volley is taken as internals and the PA panel bank is unaffected. If the panel bank is active (even if it is full), the following steps are resolved strictly in order:
1. The volley may cause a "leak point" of internal damage. There are two conditions under which this can happen: A] The total damage of the volley is at least 3x the number of undestroyed panel boxes in the bank, AND the panel bank is either at or raised to a reinforced level, AND the panel bank must be at a reinforced level to hold the full volley (i.e. total damage of this volley plus previous degradation + energy is greater than 6x the number of undestroyed panel boxes).
B] The portion of the volley's damage caused by disruptors is at least 2x the number of undestroyed panel boxes in the bank.
If either of these conditions are true, then the volley causes a single leak point. A single volley can never cause more than one leak point. If there is a leak point, subtract it from the damage total, but make a note of it. It will be resolved as internal damage at the end.
2. 20% of the volley is recorded as degradation damage to the facing PA bank. Use total damage after subtracting a leak point (if any): round 0.5+ up, and less than 0.5 down. This is not energy, and takes effect immediately. Distribute degradation points as evenly as possible among all of PA boxes in that bank, with odd points distributed at the Andromedan player's option.
These points are resolved as degradation, never internals, until there are 10 points of degradation on all PA boxes in that panel. Note that panels at standard level can still collect more than 6 points of degradation per box. The degradation points are permanent, and can only be repaired in a manner similar to damaged shield boxes on other ships.
3. It may be that after degradation, there is more energy than the bank can hold. In this case, the energy over maximum is handled as "released energy" (D10.324). There is a specific order to distribute this power (D10.424):
1. Other PA panels in bank (none in this case). This only occurs if an individual PA panel box is destroyed by a DRONE hit.
2. Energy modules in hanger (none for tourney).
3. Other PA panels on ship (i.e. the opposite PA panel bank). Note that this means that the degradation may reduce the number of internals that you do.
4. Batteries (only if other PA panels are full).
5. Apply as internal damage. Note that an Andromedan cannot voluntarily release power (by turning off PA panel banks) if any energy will reach this step.
4. Apply the remaining, non-degradation points (i.e. the other 80%) as energy to the panel. If this is below the maximum capacity but there is a leak point, then resolve the leak point as a HULL hit. If there are no HULL hits left (and only after this point), then resolve the leak point by a normal roll on the DAC.
If this exceeds the maximum capacity, then add in the leak point (if any) to the excess and resolve the whole as a single volley of internals.
5. If the internal damage results in a DRONE hit, the Andromedan must destroy a PA panel box on that set of panels. The energy contained in that PA panel box is released and dealt with according to (D10.324).
This process is outlined in point #3 above.
Example 1: The rear panels of an Andromedan Krait have a capacity of 40 at reinforced levels. The forward bank of six panels has no damage. The rear bank of four panels, however, is full to capacity with 8 degradation and 32 energy (40 total). Another volley of 8 damage comes in. This is not disruptor damage and thus does not cause a leak point. It does cause (8 / 5 = 1.6 rounds up to 2) degradation. The panel now has 10 deg + 32 energy. The excess 2 points are absorbed by the front panels. The other 6 points are scored as internal damage.
Example 2: The forward bank of six panels of an Andromedan Krait have 3 degradation and 16 energy (19 total). It is at standard levels when it receives a volley of 18 points of phaser damage. This is at least 3x the number of boxes, and the panel bank would have to be reinforced to hold the full volley. Thus, if the Andromedan raises the panels to reinforced level, then there is a leak point (by condition [A]). The 17 non-leak damage then causes (17 / 5 = 3.4 rounds down) 3 degradation. The 14 remaining points are absorbed as energy, for a total of 6 degradation and 30 energy now in the bank. The leak point is then resolved as a HULL hit. Note that the panels do not need to be at reinforced levels.
If the Andromedan did not raise the panels to reinforced level, then there is no leak point. The 18 damage would cause (18 / 5 = 3.6 round up) 4 degradation. The 14 remaining points would exceed the standard level by 1 point, which would be resolved by a normal DAC roll.
________________________________________
Toggling of Panels
An Andromedan player can release energy from a PA panel bank during the turn, either by lowering it from reinforced to standard level, or by turning it off entirely. This occurs at the raise/lower shield step of the Sequence of Play (6B7). There are four sub-steps to this action:
1. Panels may be deactivated on any impulse during the raise/lower panels step. Any energy which was in the deactivated panels is immediately released according to (D10.324). The released energy is absorbed by other systems in the following order:
1. Energy modules in hanger (none for tourney).
2. Other PA panels on ship (i.e. the opposite PA panel bank).
3. Batteries (only if other PA panels are full).
If energy module(s), other panel(s), or batteries cannot absorb the energy, then the Andromedan cannot voluntarily deactivate a panel and take internals.
2. Panels deactivated for at least 8 impulses may be activated at either standard or reinforced levels. There is no additional cost for re-activation (i.e. you only need to pay once to activate or reinforce all panels for a turn). A newly activated panel will have no energy. i.e. It cannot absorb energy from panels that were deactivated in that same impulse (step #1 above).
3. Panels that have been at reinforced level for at least 8 impulses may be reduced to standard levels. Any energy above the limit is immediately released (i.e. degradation + energy - 6x number of undestroyed PA boxes in that panel). The released energy is absorbed by other systems in the following order:
1. Energy modules in hanger (none for tourney).
2. Other PA panels on ship (i.e. the opposite PA panel bank). This can include a panel that was activated the same impulse (step #2 above).
3. Batteries (only if other PA panels are full).
If the EM, other panels, or batteries cannot absorb the energy, then the Andromedan cannot voluntarily reduce the panel and take internals.
4. Panels that have been at standard level for at least 8 impulses may be raised to reinforced levels. There is no additional energy cost to do this.
Note that this allows a flawless panel dump directly to batteries. Say you are running away with your rear to the enemy. You deactivate your forward panels. Then, 8 or more impulses later, you turn towards your opponent. On the same impulse you switch off your rear panels and switch on your forward panels. The energy all dumps to battery, and the enemy never has a shot on your deactivated panels. You do have to face your enemy for 8 impulses however, before you can reactivate your rear panels.
________________________________________
Clearing of Panels
At the End-of-Turn, the Andromedan can release some energy from both PA panel banks without lowering them. This works in the following steps:
1. 10% of the energy points stored in each PA bank (round 0.5+ up, less than 0.5 down) can be transferred to the batteries. If 4 or fewer points are stored in a bank, 1 damage energy point (only) can be transferred instead. This cannot transfer more energy units to the batteries than the batteries' capacity to hold (30 max on the Krait with no power in the batteries).
2. 1 point per PA box in a bank can be dissipated into space (lost). Each bank is handled seperately. Therefore, an undamaged Krait can dissipate 6 points from the front bank and 4 points from the rear bank.
________________________________________
Continuing the discussion on the anti cloak objects...
Is there any way to 'tag' and object/vehicle/planet/component or what have you to all races...and then cloak it...? Like the hidden planets for the monsters in some mods?
I don't think I've every actually seen this in a mod...but...planets can have attributes right? So they could have Combat plus or minues built into them...Would these affect any of the ground combat? Would they help any WP on the planet?
Well that and the PA panels are enough for now...but I want to talk about drones/missiles, and fighters when we get done with these two topics...
I'm not entirely sure how these PA panels work... They absorb damage as energy that can slowly be put into your power systems? But if you get too much energy build up, they overload? Heavy hits cause a bit of damage to leak past into the internals. Every hit slowly degrades the PA panels, but what does degradation do? Destroy a panel when it gets so many degradation points?
Kana wrote:
Is there any way to 'tag' and object/vehicle/planet/component or what have you to all races...and then cloak it...?
I do not know what you mean by tagging the object.
Kana wrote:
I don't think I've every actually seen this in a mod...but...planets can have attributes right? So they could have Combat plus or minues built into them...Would these affect any of the ground combat? Would they help any WP on the planet?
Most abilities do not function on planets. Any abilities that require you to own the object, such as combat sensors and resource modifiers, will generally not work as a planet ability. The storm sector-wide combat penalty ability will function fine, exactly as storms do. Smarter than your average Texrak. Back to top
Yeah this is one of the most complicated systems in SFB. PA Panels that is...
The degredation is basically the capacity of the PA Panel to absorb energy. When a panel is fully degredated...it will not absorb energy. Plus the panels them selves can be destroyed seperately as well...which cause a whole new mess of problems...Degredation you can repair or regenerate, like shield regeneration. Non degraded PA panel capacity may be filled with energy, but as shown there are ways to eliminate that energy, so it can abosrb more.
Basically this is a combination of a shield, and some form of emmissive armor, and regeneration...I'm just not sure how to implement it...I guess I would have to figure out what each process is, and assign a specific ability to that process...
As for 'tag'...basically someway to assign an object to all of the races...so that they could somehow use the ability we assign to the object, without having to build anything...but as you say...I guess my idea of anti-cloak stellar phenomenon is not possible...
Yet it's a good thing that all of the storm abilities affect planets...Yay one good thing...
So basically, the role is to reduce damage by a certain amount and to be very moderately leaky, and to redirect some power into the energy systems? Not really sure how you could do this, other than a combination of leaky armor, shielding and emissive armor ability. Smarter than your average Texrak. Back to top
I was going to simulate the energy transfer, by either adding in a solar supply ability...IE they could just ram an asteriod or some other smaller obeject, and then drain the energy...and/or a regeneration ability...
Ok...on the regenerate ability...its says armor regeneration...but remember reading in one of the threads, saying that this ability when applied to other components will repair them as well...so I guess it would repair thing other than armor, if you add this ability to them....?
As for other things I'm considering for my SFB Mod...
I'm having a problem with the missiles/seekers...called 'drones' in SFB...
First there are Drone Racks, basically the launchers.
Second the Drones themselves.
Third the individual drones can be modified to allow them other cababilities.
If the drone launcher worked...I would have made different launchers, that could hold/launcher more drone as per SFB, but that doesn't work...it would have allowed me to make very detailed drone construction...so that sucks...(speaking of which I wish that we could make custom ordanance in SEV, but I'm sure ordanance will be as generic as supply)
So now I'm forced to use the seeker option. But that is launcher and missile as a complete package. So for the different missile types I would have to make different components, and then even more different by their assorted capabilities...like damage, size, speed, HP.
So I guess what exactly is changed by a mount...is it just size, cost, supply, and HP...and in someways range...but we are sure nothing to do with damage right...even though the game shows the missile as having more damage? Speed isnt covered because the mounts are more DF oriented...
I guess I can cover the basic missile, damage and damage types, plus speed by the component, then with the mounts increase size, HP, supply, and cost with the mounts...
Now that I've typed this in it make complete sense...I hate that...Next time my thoughts on fighters, and rail mounted weapons and systems....
Ok...on the regenerate ability...its says armor regeneration...
The ability bears absolutely no relation to the Armor ability. All components with at least one point of armor regeneration ability can and will benefit from the regeneration.
Kana wrote:
So I guess what exactly is changed by a mount...
The mounts only change the base component attributes. Once the seeker is fired, the seeker object is no longer covered by the mount. Any changes to damage, range, etc. are lost. The range fired from can be affected by the mount, since it is an attribute of the component. But the actual range traveled is an attribute of the seeker object, and is thus not affected by mounts. All fired seekers act exactly as the unmounted version of the missile component is shown. Smarter than your average Texrak. Back to top
[The mounts only change the base component attributes. Once the seeker is fired, the seeker object is no longer covered by the mount. Any changes to damage, range, etc. are lost. All fired seekers act exactly as the unmounted version of the missile component is shown.
So the HP of the individual seeker will be unchanged as well once launched from the mount....if that's true well that really sucks...Can't see much of a reason to have a mount unless it's to affect how and when the missiles fires...
Missile mounts can be used to change the launch range, as stated.
They can also alter the size of the missile launcher or the launcher's hitpoints.
They can affect how many supply points are used up when firing the missile.
They can affect the resource cost of the launcher.
They can also be used to restrict use of a particular launcher component to a specific hull size. Back to top
So let me clairify...Mounts will not effect the damage, the HP, or the effective range of the seekers themselves...
Now about fighters...
Ok...I want different size fighters...basically there will be about 4 or 6 sizes...the main components are part of the tonnage of the fighter itself, stuff like engines, avionics, cockpit, main gun, bombay...I want to have basically pod/missile rails for stuff that would be hanging off of a wing, or underside of the fighter...I figured I could design a mount that will decrease the size of the 'oversized' components I want to hang on the rails, so that they end up with 0kt size. My problem is how to limit the number of rails on the fighter...like 2 for small, 4 medium, 6 heavy, etc...
Since they are not taking up internal space...they aren't limited by the size of the unit. So in theory you could have unlimited rail components. I guess I could limit the specific components, but that would limit them across the board for all fighter types...
You can make a restriction on the weapon itself (use restrictions one per vehicle up to ten per vehicle) but not make restrictions individual to each each fighter type.
You may consider allowing the weapon to occupy a few kT of space even though they are external - I'm sure there would be some sort of onboard components that would operate the launching mechanism. Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod Back to top
Reducing the fighter weapon size to 1kt would allow both different size fighters to carry different weapon amounts and allow someone to do the tradeoff of range/speed vs firepower.
You can also make the fighters much larger than the base size, and have the structure of some components 0kt. This would allow a lot of customization while making them just as desrtoyable.
On a third note, you could make a really small type of fighter a "missile" with components mount-modded to only fit on that fighter chassis, but the "missiles" would then share launch bays with the fighters.
A specific bay for a specific tonnage/class of ship would solve that issue, but I recall SFB having both shuttles and drones.
Question: has anyone put a fighter bay on a fighter? (a real small fighter bay for launching the above "missiles" would be neat... what were those shuttles again?) There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity. I am firmly on one side of that line! Back to top
Reducing the fighter weapon size to 1kt would allow both different size fighters to carry different weapon amounts and allow someone to do the tradeoff of range/speed vs firepower.
You can also make the fighters much larger than the base size, and have the structure of some components 0kt. This would allow a lot of customization while making them just as desrtoyable.
It's just like I have this idea in my head, and a vision of what i want, and i can't get the game to quite do it...Fryon keeps saying he hates having to shoot down some of my really good ideas...I'm hoping that SEV is really going to have the flexability that has been presented...Also that some nice person will write a program like SEModder as well...I just can't wrap my brain around a bunch of lines of text...
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
All logos and trademarks used on this site, all comments and stories posted for reading, all files hosted for download, and all art work hosted for viewing are property of their respective owners; all the rest copyright 2003-2010 Nolan Kelly.
Syndicate news: - Syndicate forums:
Page Generation: 0.31 Seconds
Files & Links
SEnet Content
User Content
SE.net Info
- Syndicate forums: