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Suggestions for Nova!
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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:56 am    Post subject: Suggestions for Nova! Reply with quote

I've made a few suggestions, and some went to Balance and some people say some should wait for Nova. That left me thinking I'm likely to forget all of mine, so I'd better write them down if I'm going to expect Kwok to remember them, too!

So...

  • More 5kt components, halvsies. (like armor that is type organic but doesn't regenerate, worse sensor types, small weapons for ships)
  • Separate supply and engines. It's just kinda funny that craft with engines get this huge boost to supplies... And then to have to remember to put supplies in a space station.
  • Facilities that 'auto convert' one type of resource to another. (high tech level)
  • Larger research requirements to boost epic weapons.
  • Organic computers, crystalline facilities, I dunno...
  • Fighter weapons that only target other seeker level stuff (like bomblet missiles for fighters)
  • Ship weapons that target seekers and regular stuff (like the bomblet missiles but can also hit planets) but are negated by emissive of the appropriate level.
  • Some way to negate (or reduce) the effectiveness of supply drain as an attack. (Right now it's almost the best weapon - it can't kill anything fast, but it can kill anything. Make it not target fighters?)


Another suggestion I've been thinking about...

...Is it possible to make planets have a maximum conditions level?

Asteroids - Deadly
Tiny - Unpleasant
Small - Mild
Medium - Good
Large - Optimal
Huge - Mild

I know it'd make small planets worse, but small planets really would be worse, sortof, because they can't defend themselves from the rigors of space. You could, for instance, if this were possible, to reverse this list for vacuum breathers, as more gravity makes it harder to maintain vacuum. (It's also easier to maintain clean gasses in more gravity)

The different types of planets might change this, or racial homeworld, but I don't think that's possible yet.

...Is it possible to require technology to build facilities for each type of planet?

It'd require a different method to glean materials from gas, slush, and rock planets. Or even build on them.

...Is it possible to link supply generation with solar technology? With star size as well as number?

This is assuming supplies means energy.

...More two-technology or matrix components.

I'd love to be able to focus on range instead of sensor density, or vice-versa. What if sensor tech level also was linked to production facilities like the mineral scanner? Satellite components that increase production (and therefore advertise your tech level).

---

These are just some of the ideas I've had. I'd love to hear other people's. I know Kwok isn't a djinn, but I hope to inspire him and help if I can ^-^

-Crissa


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of these ideas are already in the mod including a reactor + engine propulsion system, and more 5kT components. I'll be updating the Nova Mod pages by the end of week. Lots of info to add!

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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Shrike
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 17, 2006

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

* New unique ruin techs which can be researched further
* New hull types with their own advantages/disadvantages, like tug boats or research stations
* Artificial moon tech to be put in between huge planets and ring worlds
* planetary facilities in the style of SEIV proportions mod (haven't tried SEV version yet) which take forever to build but provide substantial bonuses when built
* more diverse missile types

I know, it's all been done before, but I have yet to play it in SEV Smile


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SuicideJunkie
Leaky Guru


Joined: May 28, 2005
Location: Canada!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once Aaron fixes the conditions change function, I can send you my pollution script scheme to try.

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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you be open to GGmod/MOO2-style "tech breakthroughs"?

Based on your percentage of completion toward a tech level, you have a chance of getting a random "breakthrough" which grants enough free points in that tech to gain the level. In GGmod the chance is equal to the completion ratio, but you could use the square of the completion ratio (making breakthroughs harder to get, especially with low completion ratios) or use a threshold of 50% minimum completion before any breakthroughs can occur at all, then ramp it up at double speed, or whatever...

Of course, this would be open to exploiting in single player (rerunning turns until you get your breakthrough) but hey, it's single player, nobody really cares if you cheat there Razz

You could also have decay/corruption/spoilage/whatever by taking away a percentage of points from every tech area each turn. Probably not a good idea to have a threshold-based breakthrough scheme while implementing this idea though, as then techs could become impossible to attain unless you have a certain number of research points allocated - which would probably confuse less mathematically inclined players! Razz

There's a simple implementation of these ideas (both breakthroughs and decay) in the Random Research Mod; I'm not sure if GGmod has decay; it might have only breakthroughs, and besides, it might be easier for you to find the code if it's not buried in a bunch of other GGmod stuff! Wink

edit: Oh yeah, one more thing... how about Quality Mounts, resurrecting an old idea from SE4 P&N and expanding on it a bit? Get rid of the cheesy large/heavy/massive mounts, and instead have 3 mounts that can be applied to any component, not just a weapon:

* Standard Mount - This is your bog standard mount; it should appear first in the list so it's the default. At level one (which all empires should start with) it should have no actual effect, but as you research, say, Manufacturing tech, you get slight bonuses to all attributes of a component - slight increases in positive attributes like HP, damage, etc. and slight decreases in negative attributes like cost, supply usage, etc. (save for size which remains at standard).

* Premium Mount - This mount is your "tip top quality" mount. It should have significant increases in positive attributes and huge increases in negative attributes (save for size, which remains at standard). It can be unlocked via research into, say, Quality Engineering (or empires can start with level 1), and further research in that area can increase the bonuses.

* Economy Mount - This mount is your "cheapo bargain bin" mount. It should have significant decreases in positive attributes and small decreases in negative attributes (save for size, which remains at standard). It can be unlocked via research into, say, Mass Production (or empires can start with level 1), and further research in that area can reduce the penalties.


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm... I never use Carriers. I mean, literally. Why use them when they're just more expensive cargo ships?

What differs Frigates from top-level Drones? They can carry cargo instead of weapons, I suppose... Why Drones can't carry Population as quickie transports, for instance... I dunno.

The current settings for Afterburners aren't useful for Medium or Large Fighters.

Why are Fighters always larger than Troops?

Just thinking.

I would like to be able to colonize asteroids, have base ship or orbital moon colonies... It was possible to move planets, is it possible to move warp points inside a sector or move planets from sector to sector? I love the big orbital construction and space stations that create supplies and stuff. Nothing says 'space' to me than people actually living in space.

-Crissa


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fighters larger than troops... yeah, I would personally like bigger troop units, just so ground combat and the planet cargo list don't get so darn crowded! Razz

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Sunnendei_Tinco
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 20, 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can the random movement ability be applied so that it only acts upon a single object like a ship or base? If it can, you could have a special station or attack base hull that has access to a unique trading station component. Maybe not the most useful or practical thing, but I think a slowly wandering trading post could add some nice roleplay elements. If the ability could work that way, you could do some interesting things with mines as well...

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prisoner881
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 15, 2007

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekolis wrote:
Would you be open to GGmod/MOO2-style "tech breakthroughs"?

Based on your percentage of completion toward a tech level, you have a chance of getting a random "breakthrough" which grants enough free points in that tech to gain the level. In GGmod the chance is equal to the completion ratio, but you could use the square of the completion ratio (making breakthroughs harder to get, especially with low completion ratios) or use a threshold of 50% minimum completion before any breakthroughs can occur at all, then ramp it up at double speed, or whatever...


I suggested this type of "leaky" research to Aaron a couple of weeks ago. He says Malfador considered this but rejected it as "not fun" for the player. Apparently folks like spending research points and knowing exactly what they'll get and exactly when they'll get it. Realistic? Hardly. Fun? Debatable.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh, since Kwok is the Master of AI Ministers, maybe he could figure out a way to have a Militia Minister whose sole purpose is making sure you have at least one valid troop design for your planetary militias, so your planets don't get conquered by surprise! Wink Or at least warning the player that they don't have militias...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you clarify that last one Ed, are you saying if you don't have a plain old "Troop" design type, you won't have any militia?

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, aren't militia units pulled somehow from your list of existing designs that have the unit type defined as militia in Settings.txt (which in stock and most mods is Troop)? I'm not sure how the game selects which one to use - maybe it uses the latest non-obsolete one, or maybe it uses an assortment. In any event, I recall finding out once that if there are NO troop designs defined for an empire, then planets will get no militia, even if the empire has the technology to build troops. So if you forget to design a troop for your empire, you could be in for an unpleasant surprise when your homeworld gets invaded! Wink This issue could have been resolved in a patch (maybe Aaron made the game create "temporary designs" to serve as militia?) but I don't recall that happening.

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I knew you needed a troop vehicle in order to get militia but I thought you were you saying it had to be of the "Troop" design type. I'm under the assumption the game just picks the first design its finds that uses "Troop" vehicle size.

Just make sure you have a troop design! I don't see the benefit of having a minister for this since the player would have to remember to turn it on, which is probably harder to remember than "I should make a troop design on the first turn".


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, good point - if there were only a way to turn on a certain minister by default... Razz
Ah, a nagging event script perhaps? Wink


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've updated the Nova component and weapon lists:
http://www.captainkwok.net/novamod-components.php
http://www.captainkwok.net/novamod-weapons.php

I haven't added in all the weapons yet - still working on troop and fighter weapons along with warheads and a couple of other groups. The components list is a bit more complete.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are weapon turrets?

...And seems to me that there's less crossover PD/Planet weapons and there's no seeker PD (should be in missile tech anyhow) and...

Shouldn't Torpedoes/Missiles be smaller installed tonnage than a Projector/Beam weapon of the same caliber? Or are you assuming we'll use Mounts to make the installed tonnage/damage equal, giving use the option of using smaller projectors/beam weapons?

I like that long list of random things that make the ships perform better. Anything to give big ships more of an advantage than just punching hard.

-Crissa


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Jorg
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 18, 2007

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Capt'n!
Have you considered writing some random events of your own? - And is it possibly to maybe make alterations in the intel files to have new/other effects from intel?




Would love to test Nova for you, when you've made the AI work with the new tech, currently play a 114 BM game now, with a friend cooperative VS several AI's with a slight bonus to see how they handle things, looking great right now!


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weapon Turrets are like mini Weapon Platforms that only take part in ground combat. They will use the "Small" weapons and will have their own mounts.

Note the weapon list is "preliminary" and thus not the full list. Technically the Scatterpack Missile is a missile, but it's direct fire because I didn't want it to have 100% to hit assuming no counter PD.

As per standard Space Empires procedure, mounts will be used for Direct Fire weapons to scale up their size/damage.

---

I will definitely add new events and intel projects for the mod.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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DrunkenPirate
Space Emperor


Joined: May 23, 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the updates and the list thus far, I also like you made the changes that I highlighted about weapon types from my previous post. Very Happy

One small hole to pick though. Razz

Quote:
# Quantum Torpedo (11)
- 40kT, Normal Damage, Direct Fire, Beam
# Small Quantum Torpedo (6)
- 8kT, Normal Damage, Direct Fire, Beam


Love the progress so far.


___________________


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SuicideJunkie
Leaky Guru


Joined: May 28, 2005
Location: Canada!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

prisoner881 wrote:
ekolis wrote:
Would you be open to GGmod/MOO2-style "tech breakthroughs"?

Based on your percentage of completion toward a tech level, you have a chance of getting a random "breakthrough" which grants enough free points in that tech to gain the level. In GGmod the chance is equal to the completion ratio, but you could use the square of the completion ratio (making breakthroughs harder to get, especially with low completion ratios) or use a threshold of 50% minimum completion before any breakthroughs can occur at all, then ramp it up at double speed, or whatever...


I suggested this type of "leaky" research to Aaron a couple of weeks ago. He says Malfador considered this but rejected it as "not fun" for the player. Apparently folks like spending research points and knowing exactly what they'll get and exactly when they'll get it. Realistic? Hardly. Fun? Debatable.
The best part, is that it allows you to avoid micromanaging your research without penalty.

You can set and forget, and still get maximal benefits.

It also means that it is more expensive to rush down one tech area instead of diversifying your tech. You can still rush an area if you want, but you pay more for it.


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Hexxon
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 06, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd love to see:

A lesser effect of "Emissive Armor".

A "Reactive Armor" type armour, like a "scatter armor" against bolts. Can you use
Ability X Type := Weapon Delivery Type Damage Received Modifier Percent

for an armour component?

--
Or better yet, some sort of emissive effect for all armor, and make emissive armor real "thin" but even better at bouncing damage.
--
Since the Organic/Crystal are major traits:

Organic/Crystaline tech weapon/ship design have a drastically different design paradigm. Not just the fact that they use "organic" or "radioactive" versions of the exact same thing with slight adjustments in range/RoF/damage.

An Example:
Organic components all regenerate. Organic components takes 2x damage from biological weapons. Ships requires 1/2 the crew. Uses 2x as much supply (needs to "eat"). Less hull sizes to choose from. bigger fighters, no drones. superior bolts, below average beams & missiles. Cannot be "refitted"(don't know if this is possible). Gain xp faster (all organic bridge has xp gain bonus).

crystaline race has no seekers. No PDs. superior shield tech, superior beams [longer ranged] and beam choices. smaller beams can hit seekers. slow at getting xp (can you do xp penalties?). built in jammer against long range scanners. Superior turning rate/defense/offense.

etc.etc.

Just an idea to open the dialog, the actual difference doesn't matter, just make it really different to play the major traits without it seem too "one strategy to play" those traits.






Q:
Currently what's the difference between a missile and a torpedo?


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Refractive Armor has that ability versus all energy weapons - bolts and beams. I think I'll have to change the projectile weapons though to direct fire "missiles" for it to work as intended.

I was thinking of adding a counterpart for projectile/missile weapons.

---

There is light and heavy emissive armor. The lighter emissive armor will actually have less emissive ability per kT, but its more likely to produce a "stacking effect" versus heavy weapons.

---

Not sure how far I will take the Crystalline and Organic Traits. Pretty sure it won't be as far as Adamant though.

---

Basically missiles have a turn rate and are a bit slower, while torpedoes turn instantly and travel faster.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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prisoner881
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 15, 2007

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One small suggestion: make robo-miners/farmers/refiners available earlier in the game.

Right now I have to go a few tech levels into the mining/farming/refining trees. I find that I rarely need to advance these tech levels far enough to get the robo's until mid- or late-game. Even then, I almost never use them because teching up gives the same - or better - results with less micromanagement effort.

I'd suggest making these available all the way back at tech level 1, albeit with reduced capabilities.

Or, maybe not...it would certainly add an interesting strategic twist to the early game if robo's were highly effective at resourcing. Asteroids would then become very valuable strategic assets, must more so than they are now. The twist would be the difficulty in protecting space-based resourcing operations.

Wouldn't it be nice to see races fighting over more than just planets and warp points?


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Crissa
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 07, 2006

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about putting the robos under... robotics? Sure, you can't have higher level robos until you have the higher resource tech, but at least you'd get robos from the darn robotics.

Oh! Unit launchers: I'd like them to be designed in such a way that if the launcher has cargo it can hold one top-level unit. That way I can choose whether I want to focus on fast launching or multiple waves of efficiently stored units.

-Crissa


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prisoner881
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 15, 2007

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I fibbed, I've got some other suggestions:

- Implement the advanced shielding types (those beyond Phased Shields) that weren't implemented with the stock SE5. I'm trying to remember, but I believe these are Plasma Shields and Null-Space Shields. Plasma Shields block plasma weapons (or maybe they block everything but plasma weapons?). Null-Space Shields block all weapons, including Null-Space weapons and any other shield-skipping weapon.

- Give me a good reason to use a medium-range DF weapon other than the Anti-Proton Beam. Unless you've messed with it a bit, the Meson Blaster's smaller kT size doesn't offset the huge range/accuracy advantages of the APB. Phased Polaron Beams are good for slicing through normal shields, but their damage is so weak compared to APB's that it's usually smarter to just blast through with mounted APB's (esp. if the target has armor+shields). What I'd like to see is a greater weapon-effect variety that encourages specific tactical strategies that play to those effects. Right now, the APB is such a good all-purpose weapon that I have difficulty justifying anything else for a medium-range weapon.

- The WMG needs to be bigger kT-wise than it is. Either make the overall kT size bigger or (and this is my preference) force it to only be available on Heavy and Massive mounts. Of course, I don't know if the latter is possible.

- Give me a good reason to use the different seeker variants. Right now I have to research CSM's, Torpedo's, and Plasma seekers separately. However, there's not enough variety in weapons effects to justify (for me anyway) going after anything but CSM's. CSM's are available at game start, so they're typically what you go for early-game. Mid- or late-game, DF weapons are the better choice over seekers, so I find it difficult to justify starting all the way back at level 1 for alternative seeker types. Thus, I never bother researching torps or plasma weapons.

- I'd like to see this for both BM and Nova: all colonies should by default have sight radii and ability equal to the latest sensor tech without requiring me to launch a recon sat. Leave recon sats to hexes without planets. It just seems rather silly to require a colony to launch a teeny little sat to get sight radius when any respectable colony ought to be able to do this from ground-based sensors.

- I like your Combat Bridge component. Might I suggest a complementary component: the Fleet Bridge. This would bring attack & defense bonuses to fleets, one per fleet effective.

- Decrease the size of the self-destruct device, make it available at an earlier tech level, and reduce its effectiveness such that it's not a 100% effective defense against being boarded. Make higher tech level SD devices with higher probabilities of working during a boarding action.

- While we're on the subject of boarding actions, I find that I never use this tactic. The boarding components are too big, too expensive, and too ineffective at low tech levels. Managing a battle such that I leave some undestroyed enemy ships around to board is a pain. Make boarding pods with longer launch ranges (if that's possible) but make them vulnerable tp PD (again, if that's possible).

- Does anybody use Tractor or Repulsor Beam components? I've never seen them in any battle I've ever been in. My guess is this is because their ranges are so pathetic. Up the range on these puppies so they're somewhat competitive with typical ranges of medium-range DF weapons of the same tech level.

- Weird idea #1: Add a new armor type called Reactive Armor. It's only effective against warhead-type weapons. Warhead hits cause damage to the armor not based upon the warhead damage rating but instead on a fixed number of damage points per hit. Example: Four CSM's are launched, each with a damage rating of 100 points. The target has no PD, so all four hit. But instead of 400pts of damage, each CSM does (for example) 10pts of damage to the armor. Once the armor is defeated, warheads do normal damage. Higher armor tech levels would either (a) decrease the amount of per-hit damage, (b) increase the structure points of the armor or (c) both. For flavor, have it work against all warhead weapons, which includes warhead-based seekers, mines, and kamikaze ships. DF weapons would do normal damage to this type of armor.


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