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Dvoongar's Barrage of Questions
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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Dvoongar's Barrage of Questions Reply with quote

I've got a ton of questions, but I'll try to just start slow and pace myself.

[%Get_Empire_Colonies_Count%] behaves differently than [%Sys_Get_Empire_Colonies_Count%] when I plug it in. I can't imagine these two numbers being different. I know there's such a thing as a "local variable" and all, but counting colonies is counting colonies.

Anyhow, something's not right. I'm guessing facilities need a fixed amount in the formula field. Here's what I've got:
Code:
Number of Abilities                             := 1
Ability 1 Type                                  := Point Generation - Research
Ability 1 Description                           := Research Centers generate [%Amount1%] research points per turn.
Ability 1 Scope                                 := Space Object
Ability 1 Range Formula                         := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula                      := Trunc(25 / (12 + ([%Get_Empire_Colonies_Count%])) * (500 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 50)))
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula                      := 0


The game doesn't like it. ...And apparently can't do math.
With 110 colonies, a level 2 Research Center should produce 112 Research points.

Of course it's a machine, and I know it can do math just fine. Something else must be the problem. I'm guessing there's no way to make that field take a number which changes from turn to turn, and use it.

Now I do have more questions. When are the %'s required exactly, and when are the brackets required? I see they're not always mandatory, and I'm guessing they mean something. The % used to indicate integers, but from what I've seen it's doing something different in this language. ...Well, taking up space and time anyhow.

I confess, a gimmick like this isn't really properly tested on a savegame. Still, until I see some hope it might work, I'm reluctant to invest much time on it. I do hate to give up; it held such promise...

Okay, that's the first little string of questions. Plenty more, but this is what I'm after at the moment. Thanks for taking the time to read.

Okay, I previewed, and went back and checked: the numbers I get are in the 1140's all the time, when I rclick on the build menu Research Center. This seems to indicate the fool variable "Get_Empire_Colonies_Count" doesn't contain much. Now I get the same results with or without the "Sys" tacked on, so that's not it. What variable name do I need to get a real count of my colonies?

Oh, and it still won't work with the saved game. I tried a couple of turns in "Quickstart", and they processed - nothing to load up there. Then I went ahead and started another game with simultaneous movement and it processed turns. Now, I just need to get a variable that actually means something... Already tried with "Sys_" tacked on the front.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get_Empire_Colonies_Count is a function, not a variable, so you would call it as Get_Empire_Colonies_Count(), not as [%Get_Empire_Colonies_Count%].

Probably what's happening is the formula parser is choking on the nonexistent variable name, so it's putting zero in there in place of it and truncating the rest of your formula...


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole 'get' thing has been flabbergasting. When I learned 'get', it was partnered with 'put'. All over the place, from the context, I took all these 'gets' as just elements of the variable names. Using verbs as nouns makes things confusing to me; the converse isn't true.

Anyhow, I'm never going to get it at a level which is intuitive and quickly grasped; instances are going to require me to focus and figure things out in detail every time, and that's the way it is.

Your response is pretty helpful, but I don't know what to enclose within the parentheses. 'Empire'?

Like this:
Get_Empire_Colonies_Count(Empire)
?

...Or maybe I can omit and it'll cooperate? Just
Get_Empire_Colonies_Count
all alone?

Anyhow, thank you. I may be able to guess it out from here before anyone responds. If it works, this'll be cool. - Not that I don't have my doubts.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this game uses specific text strings for all functions like that. These text strings look up the function in a hard coded list.

Try it with nothing in the parenthesis. It's weird but it sometimes works that way.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestion. Didn't work.

Tried switching to "Get_Player_Colonies_Count" too instead of "Get_Empire_Colonies_Count". No dice. I really don't think the game wants those things to fluctuate.

It's a shame too. I've worked out a much more complex version that not only challenges expansionists to keep up, but also permits a single worlder to "go Organian" by declining to colonize and focusing everything on research.

If I could get that working, I might even try programming a couple of AI's to employ the sit strategy. Could make for a nasty surprise! High risk, of course: an aggressive neighbor could stomp 'em flat early on.

Anyhow, the critical question at this point is how to insert things like the number of colonies, number of bases, and such into a formula. Of course it may be that the game's engineered for a single formula to apply universally to all facilities in all empires; in that case it's a bust, and there'll be no way to make output dependent upon who the owner is.

Editing to add:

Code:
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula                      := Round(25 / (12 + (Get_Empire_Specific_Facility_Count("Research Center"))) * (500 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 50)))

Parses fine, and may even calculate okay. I got a reading of 60 RP's as output if I went to build one in a savegame. But the turn processing fails.

That's about the same as my first attempt.

Oh goodness! It actually seems to work! I went ahead and started a new game, and it stifles research right on down in no time. Now that isn't the formula I want, but it indicates the principle should work if only I can get some other count involved. If colony counts won't work, I might try some other facility like Spaceport or something.


Last edited by Zwo_Dvoongar on Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the programemr didn't code the game so that all variable/function calls work in all palces. I don't know for sure but it seems possible that the game can't check that function in the facility formula.

Another example is if you attempt to add the "Empire Resource Storage" ability to anything that isn't built on a planet. It just doesn't work.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
Well, the programemr didn't code the game so that all variable/function calls work in all palces. I don't know for sure but it seems possible that the game can't check that function in the facility formula.

Another example is if you attempt to add the "Empire Resource Storage" ability to anything that isn't built on a planet. It just doesn't work.

Oh, I missed your post. Please see my edit above. I think this can be made to work, one way or another. Facility counts are more indirect, but with enough monkeying around I'm sure I can cobble together a workable formula.

Gotta keep testing; I still don't trust the results. Next: alter the formula and see if I can continue the game.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here's the next question: Must the same operator be utilized throughout the requirements for a component?

Example: Is there a way to say "Empire must have Lv2 Construction and Lv3 Astrophysics or Temporal Tech" ? I haven't searched thoroughly, but I find no example where the operator ever changes; there appears to be only one opportunity to enter one, although I suppose one could just type over again "Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND" on a new line.

There are workarounds, but they involve more work. This way would be much more quick and efficient.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Name of tech") works. At least in ships. I haven't tried it in facility formulae.

Or did you mean for making requirements more complex? Here's a fun example from Warp 10. The requirements for researching Biquadseptium:
Code:
Number Of Requirements                          := 2
Requirements Evaluation Availability            := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement        := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage            := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description                       := Empire must have at least tech level 2 in Biology.
Requirement 1 Formula                           := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Biology") >= 2
Requirement 2 Description                       := Empire must have found Element 247 or be either Species 8472 or Orion.
Requirement 2 Formula                           := iif( Empire_Has_Found_Unique_Discovery(5) AND Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Armor") >= 10, TRUE, iif( Empire_Has_Racial_Trait("8472") AND Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Armor") >= 10, TRUE, iif( Empire_Has_Racial_Trait("Orion") AND Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Armor") >= 15, TRUE, FALSE)))


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
Requirements Evaluation Availability            := 1, 2
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement        := 3
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage            := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description                       := Empire must at least level 1 in Game Tech.
Requirement 1 Formula                           := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Game Tech") >= 1
Requirement 2 Description                       := Empire must have at least Level 3 in Worldships Tech.
Requirement 2 Formula                           := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Worldships Tech") >= 3
Requirement 3 Description                       := There is a limit of one Mineral Resource Storage per ship.
Requirement 3 Formula                           := Get_Design_Specific_Component_Count("Mineral Resource Storage 25k") <= 1


Code:
Requirements Evaluation Availability            := 1, 2


This means requirements 1 and 2 must both be true for the component to appear in the build list.

AND instead of numbers means all requirements must be true for component to appear in build list.

TRUE means it will always be available.

Code:
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement        := 3


This means requirement 3 must be true for you to successfully place the component on a design. If it isn't true, you will get a design warning. "There is a limit of one Mineral Resource Storage per ship." is the warning in this case.

AND means all requirements present must be true to place component on design. (I've never actually seen this used, though you could probably use it for this example to get the same result.)

TRUE means you can put as many of this component you want until you run out of design space. (Assuming, of course, that the component is present in the build list.)

Code:
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage            := TRUE


In theory, you could put numbers here and the component would only be active if the requirement is true; however, I'm not sure that actually works. If it works it would mean you can have components on a design that aren't always active.

I'm fairly certain requirements are handled in similar fashion in all data files. The only differences are in abilities that can be used. Some abilities don't work in certain datafiles.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, that's something else. I'll study carefully what you guys posted, but it doesn't answer my question. Still, those techniques are fascinating, and I could use them for other purposes.

I was asking how to set up the requirements so that all empires could get the thing if they had Lv2 Construction and Lv3 Astrophysics, while at the same time making it available to anyone with the Temporal tech.

The first case employs AND, while the second case would involve using OR.

------------------
Now this is separate from my earlier questions. The critical issue there was how to get the variable for the current player's number of colonies into the formula. I was successful getting the number of his facilities in, but it would simplify things if I could use the number of his colonies.

The goal is to make Research output diminish as the number of colonies increases. Indirectly, my best plan, if I'm restricted to counting facilities instead, is to count the shipyard facilities, since most colonies have one.

Direct counting is better, because the result is more certainly accurate. Furthermore, players who knew the deal could spoof a facility-based formula by omitting shipyards (or whatever alternative one might employ.)

It's a little frustrating, because I know the game keeps count of colonies; I just don't know what name it uses. Hopefully someone will know the name of such a prominent variable.

Now that I've started tinkering, I've got tons of questions.


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot, you can use OR, too, which means any one requirement must be true for it to be available.

So to make your tech requirements work:
Code:
Requirements Evaluation Availability            := OR
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement        := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage            := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description                       :=
Requirement 1 Formula                           := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Construction") >= 2 AND Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Astrophysics") >= 3
Requirement 2 Description                       :=
Requirement 2 Formula                           := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Temporal") >= 1



There is no function to return number of colonies in a data file.

A workaround would be to make a size zero cost zero facility that can have only one built on each planet, and then count that one-per-planet facility. Of course, if this facility causes a research penalty, human players won't build it unless you force them to, perhaps by making that facility a requirement to build any other facility on the planet.

You could also use an event script to count the number of colonies, but that's a big jump up in difficulty.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyburn wrote:
I forgot, you can use OR, too, which means any one requirement must be true for it to be available.

So to make your tech requirements work:
Code:
Requirements Evaluation Availability            := OR
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement        := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage            := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description                       :=
Requirement 1 Formula                           := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Construction") >= 2 AND Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Astrophysics") >= 3
Requirement 2 Description                       :=
Requirement 2 Formula                           := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Temporal") >= 1




Sweet! Thanks a bunch. I'm copying that into my notes.

I'm thinking more clearly now, and I remembered MHM had to do something similar already. Sure enough:

Code:
Requirement 2 Description                       := Empire must be Kzinti or have found a Slaver Box.
Requirement 2 Formula                           := iif( Empire_Has_Found_Unique_Discovery(7), TRUE, iif( Empire_Has_Racial_Trait("Kzinti"), TRUE, FALSE))


I didn't expect the use of things like AND and IFF to be permitted within the requirement itself. It appears they are, so I shouldn't be stopped on that score.

Quote:

There is no function to return number of colonies in a data file.

A workaround would be to make a size zero cost zero facility that can have only one built on each planet, and then count that one-per-planet facility. Of course, if this facility causes a research penalty, human players won't build it unless you force them to, perhaps by making that facility a requirement to build any other facility on the planet.

You could also use an event script to count the number of colonies, but that's a big jump up in difficulty.

LOL. I can't use event scripts - that's way way way down the road somewhere, and I doubt I even want to get in that deep.

I think I'm beginning to understand part of the problem here. Some things are compiled and some are interpreted. Trying to use elements which require compiling doesn't work in the plain text files, which are interpreted. There are 4 variables which would work, but they are stored in some kind of function/variable hybrid which can't be accessed via the interpreter. ...That's my guess.

Now I could count all facilities and divide by whatever I figure the average number of facilities per colony should be. Or I could count the shipyards and take my chances nobody'll cheat the system. Might be able to get counts on shipyard components, and factor that in somehow; a cheater'd have to use them. Drawback there is making the arbitrary call; I use tons of off-planet production myself.

I may just discount cheating altogether and go with a straight shipyard count. I've already put together a formula for the planets, and the simplest thing really is just to substitute.

Hey, wait a minute!

What about inserting a stretch into one of the scripts instructing it to once per turn store "Get_Empire_Colonies_Count" for each empire as a subscripted global variable? Then all that'd be left would be matching the empires to their subscripts and plugging in the variable. We should actually be able to do the same thing for all off-limits variables, systematically, as they are discovered.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was asking how to set up the requirements so that all empires could get the thing if they had Lv2 Construction and Lv3 Astrophysics, while at the same time making it available to anyone with the Temporal tech.

The first case employs AND, while the second case would involve using OR.
I did that with Biquadseptium. :p In more complicated fashion...

You always need Biology 2, But there are three other possible requirements.

Ruintech#5 + armor 10
OR
Race 8472 + Armor 10
OR
Race Orion + Armor 15

I think at some point I was planning to have the 8472 path use an organic tech insted of standard armor.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another quick question, in case anyone knows. I'll be investigating myself, also - haven't started digging yet.

Does the "Monster" have to be a ship? I'm thinking of introducing another unit, and I'd rather not hassle with re-doing all the strats. "Monster" is already listed. No, the unit has nothing to do with monsters, but so what?

Now it seems there are two meaning to the term 'type', as the game uses it. A "medium fighter" is a type, but those are also of the more general "fighter" type. It is in the general classification scheme that I am considering using "monster"; I'll give it another name totally unrelated to monsters.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the "monsters" referenced in the data files are just remnants of some unimplemented feature that Aaron planned to add early on. You can't really do anything with them that I know of.

For your research problem, what if you adjusted your plan somewhat so instead of counting colonies, you counted research facilities? This would have the side effect of penalizing empires that have small numbers of "tall" colonies, but you could fix that by adding a "mega research facility" which is, say, 10,000kT and produces much more research than normal!

edit: and to properly penalize empires that have a lot of colonies, but only a few research facilities, you could base the penalty on *total* facilities, but with research facilities counting disproportionately...


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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rnl
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 02, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
My Mod has a diminish return event setup with resource and research similar to what you want. Another setup could be to change the facility space of all planets to something that with a new facility, that has facility space increase ability, increase the planets to their normal levels. This way all planets are required to have the new facility and then you can just count the new facility by themselves. I would my the facility cheap and fast to build so it does not affect the game play.


http://sites.google.com/site/crimsonconceptmod/


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rnl wrote:
Hi,
My Mod has a diminish return event setup with resource and research similar to what you want. Another setup could be to change the facility space of all planets to something that with a new facility, that has facility space increase ability, increase the planets to their normal levels. This way all planets are required to have the new facility and then you can just count the new facility by themselves. I would my the facility cheap and fast to build so it does not affect the game play.

Right - I didn't think I was the first to try something along these lines. Event scripting's beyond me, however.

ekolis wrote:
I think the "monsters" referenced in the data files are just remnants of some unimplemented feature that Aaron planned to add early on. You can't really do anything with them that I know of.

For your research problem, what if you adjusted your plan somewhat so instead of counting colonies, you counted research facilities? This would have the side effect of penalizing empires that have small numbers of "tall" colonies, but you could fix that by adding a "mega research facility" which is, say, 10,000kT and produces much more research than normal!

edit: and to properly penalize empires that have a lot of colonies, but only a few research facilities, you could base the penalty on *total* facilities, but with research facilities counting disproportionately...


Well, my goal is a little tricky to explain. Primarily I intend to prevent the synergistic effect when empires grow rapidly and simultaneously emphasize research, even a little. That synergy's gotta be stopped, and I'm confident I can achieve at least that much.

I'd like to fix things where small empires could remain technologically competitive, unless the large empire really works hard - so hard that they cut back in other areas and risk becoming vulnerable. Everyone researches, but extreme techracing should involve risks, no matter the size of the empire attempting it. Larger empires should actually need more research facilities just to keep up.

I discovered that MainStrings.txt contains a group of 54 entries which I believe delineate what one can and cannot include in this area. They're called : "Datafile_Formula_Functions". I shall proceed using that as my "menu", and hopefully there will be no further problems.

I have about given up on the "monster" idea. It's listed as a "space object" more than one place, and I'm afraid I could invest a lot of time only to have the result be treated as a ship rather then a proper unit.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is actually documentation of all the data file functions, including what parameters you pass to them and what they return, in the SE5\Docs\SE5_Modding.pdf file. Look on pages 53-54. Note that not all functions work in all files, though.

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you read my work on attempting to add Destroyed Stars and Comets to Warp 10?

I'll give a quick summary. They don't work. The game will attempt to create comets, but not actually create them. If you try to generate a destroyed star, the game generates an actual star instead. It DOES use only models designated as models for Destroyed Stars when generating them though.

What is the relevence of this? Comets and Destroyed Stars are apparently partially implemented features. Monsters may be the same way.


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Ender
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 18, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zwo_Dvoongar wrote:
I was asking how to set up the requirements so that all empires could get the thing if they had Lv2 Construction and Lv3 Astrophysics, while at the same time making it available to anyone with the Temporal tech.

You can do it even in a single line but you have to remember that it should be done only to objects that cannot be analyzed. Adding it to components that are placed on ships reveals a bug during an analysis of a ship with this component and a player can get levels of technologies that are higher than needed to build the component. So, basically, it's a way that can be implemented without any problems only in components for units (and their hulls) and in facilities. Even when you do it in separate lines the bug will be revealed.


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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ender wrote:
Zwo_Dvoongar wrote:
I was asking how to set up the requirements so that all empires could get the thing if they had Lv2 Construction and Lv3 Astrophysics, while at the same time making it available to anyone with the Temporal tech.

You can do it even in a single line but you have to remember that it should be done only to objects that cannot be analyzed. Adding it to components that are placed on ships reveals a bug during an analysis of a ship with this component and a player can get levels of technologies that are higher than needed to build the component. So, basically, it's a way that can be implemented without any problems only in components for units (and their hulls) and in facilities. Even when you do it in separate lines the bug will be revealed.

Ouch...

Well, thanks for explaining that. For my mod to work, I may just have to live with that bug. Dozens of things like that are fairly essential.

In a way, it'll even out, since there are going to be things which should ideally be subject to analysis and won't.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you can disable two of the three ways that ships can be analyzed, namely boarding parties and crew subversion events/intel. (You can't disable ship trading between players, but banning ship trading is a common enough rule on PBW...)

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zwo_Dvoongar wrote:
Ender wrote:
Zwo_Dvoongar wrote:
I was asking how to set up the requirements so that all empires could get the thing if they had Lv2 Construction and Lv3 Astrophysics, while at the same time making it available to anyone with the Temporal tech.

You can do it even in a single line but you have to remember that it should be done only to objects that cannot be analyzed. Adding it to components that are placed on ships reveals a bug during an analysis of a ship with this component and a player can get levels of technologies that are higher than needed to build the component. So, basically, it's a way that can be implemented without any problems only in components for units (and their hulls) and in facilities. Even when you do it in separate lines the bug will be revealed.

Ouch...

Well, thanks for explaining that. For my mod to work, I may just have to live with that bug. Dozens of things like that are fairly essential.

In a way, it'll even out, since there are going to be things which should ideally be subject to analysis and won't.
Just make sub-tech fields for things. As an example, in Warp 10, I added Singularity Drive as a racial tech field unlocked by researching regular engines. But not as an additional tech in the same tech field as non-racial tech. This approach makes the tech tree complex, but sometimes complexity is good.
ekolis wrote:
Or you can disable two of the three ways that ships can be analyzed, namely boarding parties and crew subversion events/intel. (You can't disable ship trading between players, but banning ship trading is a common enough rule on PBW...)
I personally feel that this is a bad design idea.

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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 02, 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, next questions.

As I understand things, in order for units to be launchable by ships, they'll need to be derivatives of the types already hardcoded in the game. They'll need to employ drone or sat or fighter or mine lauching bays, rather than some new type of launch bay.

If there's a way to easily introduce a new type of launch bay to serve with a new type of unit, that would be good, because I'm not really comfortable using any of the ones available. It's not a big deal, but if someone can confirm one way or the other it'll save me trying to puzzle it out.

My other question's kinda mixing in the AI stuff a little. I could use examples of the "AI Tag" in practice. From what I understand, the AI tag is an ability applied in the mod before a given thing is even built. It doesn't appear to me that I could apply one to something after it's built, in other words. That's not a problem at all in this case - just trying to get clarification.

Now once the tag is applied, I would like to know if there's an easy way to segregate ships with the tag from those without. For example, one could tag the boarding party. After doing so, I would like to fleet the boarding ships in their own exclusive fleets, not mixing with the others (except maybe to include a supply and/or repair freighter.) Is that difficult? Has anyone attempted anything along those lines? (Boarding is but one example; I have more things in mind. ...and yes, boarding ships can work together effectively as long as other types aren't interfering.)

To clarify a little more myself:
1. Ships without AI tagged component continue operating as they are
2. Ships with AI tag form their own exclusive little groups and do their own thing.

Then crossing the line to a distinctly AI question: how hard would it be to then keep the tagged ships & fleets from straying through unsafe warp points?


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