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Crissa
Space Emperor
Joined: Jan 07, 2006
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 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: What's your game-stopper bug? (1.79) |
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What bug in the game makes you not want to play it anymore?
For me it's the supplies/ordinance-missing and repair bug with troops and fighters. Nothing worse than suddenly not having supply on units when you can't help them to ruin your game.
My spouse hates the circle of stupidity bug - ships aren't turning toward the inside of their opponent's turn, so faster ships circle outside and never get in range of their weapons. This affects all weapon range selections, so it's very annoying.
Next is the interface issue with recycling cargo (having to click on things individually), and then the ships/stations/units in sectors they shouldn't be - the game should move them when it checks on them instead of making them invincible. But those have workarounds like 'never place them in the way'.
What bug makes you not want to play?
-Crissa
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gurachn
Space Emperor
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: |
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For me its the circle of stupidity.
Its gotten to the point now where I almost treat it as a feature.
I can send a lone explorer ship through a system teeming with enemy frigates secure in the knowledge that it can just dance its way through the system with no fear!
Five or six combats per turn later, it will arrive safely at its destination!
But being able to exploit the stupidity, definitely doesn't make me any less frustrated over it!
 SEV Visual Mods:
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KineticShipyards
Space Emperor
Joined: Jul 27, 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, and the bad part is that it's not that hard computationally to choose an intercept course.
In fact, it would be a cool feature if one level of "drone brain" or fighter training or whatever gave you the current move-toward-them course, and an enhanced level gave you an intercept course.
It's not a deal breaker, but I find warp-entry-ordering to be completely unusable due to its UI.
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gurachn
Space Emperor
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I change my mind.
The biggest problem for me are the crashes that happen when trying to view the movement log in PBW games.
Your empire suddenly goes blind and enemies you saw last turn have suddenly disappeared, with no idea where they may have gone!
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Shrike
Space Emperor
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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There are quite a few that cause fits of frustration, but I'll limit myself to the most recent one encountered. I had a fleet of mine completely destroy an enemy planet - at least that's what both the turn message summary and the combat replay showed. But lo and behold: the planet wasn't even scratched and still had all of its assets present when clicked.
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Crissa
Space Emperor
Joined: Jan 07, 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| gurachn wrote: | | Five or six combats per turn later, it will arrive safely at its destination! |
...Until it runs out of fuel and gets destroyed. I lost count of how many times that ripper-beam ship had tried to attack my explorer...
The PBW and invulnerable asset are both bugs you should copy out your save file and settings for, so Aaron can look at them. They truly are game-stopper bugs.
-Crissa
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Shrike
Space Emperor
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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There's another annoying aspect to this bug. If you play back the exact same combat replay it will show something different than the first time. Sometimes all population and all buildings are destroyed, leaving only some damaged troops on the planet, sometimes a few damaged buildings survive, it really all looks random.
Can you describe in more detail what you mean by "copy out"? I have a rar file of the PBW turn, but since it requires the combat replay file the package is about 100MB large. I have a dropbox account but no idea on how to contact Aaron to transfer the files and additional details.
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Crissa
Space Emperor
Joined: Jan 07, 2006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you'd need both, and a copy of the settings used (like Balance mod, the shipsets, etc). It is huge, but that's how it's done.
Yes, combat replays aren't really records, so much as playing the combat again without controls. The random numbers might be different, which results in different results. When you reply the combat, it's like rewinding and starting it anew, but you don't get to choose the orders, because those are set in stone.
-Crissa
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Hazcom13
Space Emperor
Joined: Mar 17, 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Crissa wrote: | | gurachn wrote: | | Five or six combats per turn later, it will arrive safely at its destination! |
...Until it runs out of fuel and gets destroyed. |
Vehicles do not use supplies to move in combat. Nor do they use supples when moving by retreating. If the vehicle that is being chased does not plot movement, it can be attacked forever without running out of supplies.
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gurachn
Space Emperor
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Location: Osaka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Crissa wrote: | ...combat replays aren't really records, so much as playing the combat again without controls. The random numbers might be different, which results in different results. When you reply the combat, it's like rewinding and starting it anew, but you don't get to choose the orders, because those are set in stone.
-Crissa |
So its possible that the news tells you that you lost a battle, and your ship is gone from the map, but in the replay your ship gets lucky and wins?
How weird would that be!
Now that you mention it, I've sometimes had the feeling that the number of fighters I have after a battle didn't seem to match what I saw in the replay.
Still, if its only just refighting the battle from scratch, then why are the combat replay files so huge?
Surely it only needs to save the data on which ships each side has, and any stellar features in the hex.
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Crissa
Space Emperor
Joined: Jan 07, 2006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Hazcom13 wrote: | | Vehicles do not use supplies to move in combat. Nor do they use supples when moving by retreating. If the vehicle that is being chased does not plot movement, it can be attacked forever without running out of supplies. |
That's hardly going to get it across the system, though.
I have no idea what's in the replay files. The orders, certainly. Maybe all the data is in there, but the viewer doesn't use it all. I don't know. I just know what it does do, which is the damage applied seems to still be random.
-Crissa
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Skyburn
Space Emperor
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: |
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My most hated bug is the stacking of ships and units in combat.
My five hundred ship battle armada winds up looking like a giant laser-spitting hairball.
 Sky Mod v0.6 Alpha 2
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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor
Joined: Feb 02, 2011
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Skyburn wrote: | My most hated bug is the stacking of ships and units in combat.
My five hundred ship battle armada winds up looking like a giant laser-spitting hairball. |
I think you're talking about the bug that's bugging me. I call it the "elevator" bug because the ships never come down. I'm preparing to roll back to 1.74 to see if that cures it, in fact.
I may have a bad install, but I'm also seeing a new bug where gunners only become blind to a random target. Ships will maneuver against a given target (can be ship, planet, unit) but refuse to fire weapons.
Naturally, I can't leave out the circle of stupidity.
| Hazcom13 wrote: | | Crissa wrote: | | gurachn wrote: | | Five or six combats per turn later, it will arrive safely at its destination! |
...Until it runs out of fuel and gets destroyed. |
Vehicles do not use supplies to move in combat. Nor do they use supples when moving by retreating. If the vehicle that is being chased does not plot movement, it can be attacked forever without running out of supplies. |
This is contrary to my experience. I systematically try to attack residual disarmed fighters, and eventually I run them out of supplies. Retreating to a new hex does use supplies according to my scanners.
(I'm using attack move rather than attack seek to avoid taking the "stalemated battles" hits on happiness. It takes longer, but such clean-up isn't something one does when pressed for time in the first place.)
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Brad
Space Emperor
Joined: May 01, 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Skyburn wrote: | | My most hated bug is the stacking of ships and units in combat. |
That's actually more than just a visual bug - a ship that is too high won't launch drop pods (and possibly boarding shuttles, haven't tried it to be sure). It just sits directly above the planet, until the WPs down below blow it to bits.
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Ender
Space Emperor
Joined: Apr 18, 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Crissa wrote: | | My spouse hates the circle of stupidity bug - ships aren't turning toward the inside of their opponent's turn, so faster ships circle outside and never get in range of their weapons. This affects all weapon range selections, so it's very annoying. |
In my experience this is not true. The circle of stupidity behaviour only happens when a chosen strategy of an attacker is close to effectively be a maximum range strategy (don't misread it as Maximum Range). It affects most range selections only for short range weapons but almost never it's true when a chosen setting is Point Blank because such short range weapons that Point Blank is for them close to maximum range strategy are rare, and are rather limited just to fighters that behave a little differently than ships. You probably exaggerate this behaviour because AIs don't use strategies properly so their strategies are often close to effectively be maximum range strategies and, sadly, many humans don't understand how they work, too.
| gurachn wrote: | | The biggest problem for me are the crashes that happen when trying to view the movement log in PBW games. |
In my experience it only happens when a turn is generated improperly or you haven't got a file that is needed to replay this log.
| Shrike wrote: | | If you play back the exact same combat replay it will show something different than the first time. Sometimes all population and all buildings are destroyed, leaving only some damaged troops on the planet, sometimes a few damaged buildings survive, it really all looks random. |
I've seen many strange behaviours in multi but most of them, as it seems to me this one is, are related to turns being generated improperly. Eg. hosts often don't use all necessary files in the turn generation and they wonder later why the game behaves in a strange way. Have you ever seen this behaviour you mention, Shrike, in a simultaneous single player game?
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Veni_Vidi_Vici
Space Emperor
Joined: Oct 18, 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Its not necessarily a bug but I cannot stand scrapping units etc. It takes forever. It needs a condensed list.
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Shrike
Space Emperor
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ender wrote: |
| Shrike wrote: | | If you play back the exact same combat replay it will show something different than the first time. Sometimes all population and all buildings are destroyed, leaving only some damaged troops on the planet, sometimes a few damaged buildings survive, it really all looks random. |
I've seen many strange behaviours in multi but most of them, as it seems to me this one is, are related to turns being generated improperly. Eg. hosts often don't use all necessary files in the turn generation and they wonder later why the game behaves in a strange way. Have you ever seen this behaviour you mention, Shrike, in a simultaneous single player game? |
Well, no, but then again I never play single player games and I think you know that  This particular game was Fire & Ice 2 based on Arthurtuxedo's DJAS mod. He's also the admin and he's been processing turns with the autohost every now and then. I am inclined to agree with you that the way processing is done makes a world of difference for movement log or combat replay. For example: we had quite a few turns where the combat replays didn't match the news items. No idea whether the autohost or some wrong configuration are to blame for that.
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Ender
Space Emperor
Joined: Apr 18, 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I do, Shrike - what I meant was some limited testing in single player, not playing, as I think you certainly should know 
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Shrike
Space Emperor
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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For this kind of bug I'm not prepared to go through the trouble, especially since I don't know all required details to be able to reproduce it reliably.
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marhawkman
Space Emperor
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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I do know of one bug. Ships will continue to fire crew killer weapons until they run out of ammo. It doesn't matter if they killed the crew with the first salvo. They'll keep firing anyways.
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Ender
Space Emperor
Joined: Apr 18, 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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In what way it's game-breaking for you, marhawkman? I wish it was the only weapon that behaves this way, though...
Shrike, I didn't suggest you to do some testing in order to isolate the bug you mentioned - where have you read that? I just asked whether or not you saw that behaviour doing some testing in simultaneous single player because of other reasons.
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marhawkman
Space Emperor
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Ender wrote: | In what way it's game-breaking for you, marhawkman? I wish it was the only weapon that behaves this way, though...
Shrike, I didn't suggest you to do some testing in order to isolate the bug you mentioned - where have you read that? I just asked whether or not you saw that behaviour doing some testing in simultaneous single player because of other reasons. |
If it's a one on one battle and the ship equipped with a crew killing weapon does not have weapons capable of destroying the enemy ship, it will continue to fire until time runs out, wasting enormous amounts of ammo and accomplishing nothing.
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Ender
Space Emperor
Joined: Apr 18, 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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And you consider this situation so important that it's game-breaking for you? Actually, I would recommend to remove crew-killing weapons from any mod - not because of the situation (eg. supplies-depleting weapons have similar issues) but because there is no way, currently, to add some crew to a ship in space. Workarounds with tugs, as in Crimson Concept Mod, aren't enough, I think.
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marhawkman
Space Emperor
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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It's better than 1.74 where crew killing weapons would trigger the "flamethrower of death" bug. It's still something that needs fixed badly.
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Zwo_Dvoongar
Space Emperor
Joined: Feb 02, 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Zwo_Dvoongar wrote: | | Skyburn wrote: | My most hated bug is the stacking of ships and units in combat.
My five hundred ship battle armada winds up looking like a giant laser-spitting hairball. |
I think you're talking about the bug that's bugging me. I call it the "elevator" bug because the ships never come down. I'm preparing to roll back to 1.74 to see if that cures it, in fact.
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Didn't help. Elevator bug is present in 1.74. Looks like it'd take 1.66, and I'm not prepared to go that far.
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