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Spaceempires.net :: What do you want to see in a Star Trek mod? :: View topic
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What do you want to see in a Star Trek mod?
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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shipsets are easy to add the racial tech is a pain, I did start a stargate mod ages ago, took ages, stopped when someone else was doing it and it never came about

however in my mod i liked the idea of the replicators being resistant to energy weapons and needing projectile weapons to do damage, and just realised that the borg had a resistance to energy weapons but is it just them as people or did their ships have it too?


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the TV show, Borg ships could adapt to attacks and become immune to them in the process. I can't exactly do that in this game...

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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe not via being hit by the attack, but instead by some sort of racial tech that they can research after unlocking certain weapons? Say, once they research a certain level of energy weapons, that unlocks a new type of armor that is resistant to energy weapons?

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting idea... But I'm not sure how feasible that would be. I'd have to redo the way weapon damage works...

Armors that resist certain types of damage already exist in the game as-is.

Yeah that's the benefit to Anti-chroniton armor. It says "armor piercing can Suck it!". Hehe... it's not the most durable, it doesn't regenerate, it doesn't generate shields, but good luck using armor penetrating stuff. Very Happy

Borg Adaptive Armor? It regenerates, resists damage, generates shields, and REgenerates shields. Adding high resist to that would be insane...

Oh yeah, what resists do the current shield/armor types have? teh list:

Number Of Shield Levels := 6
Shield Level 1 Name := Normal Shields
Shield Level 2 Name := Phased Shields
-"Skips normal shields" has 0% pen (it ONLY skips normal shields)
Shield Level 3 Name := Nutational Shields
Shield Level 4 Name := Psychic Shields
-takes 50% damage from "Psychic" damage; 75% pen from "Only cloaking" and "Only Ordnance Storage"; 85% pen from "Only Supply Storage"; 25% pen from "Only Ship Control"
Shield Level 5 Name := Subspace Shields
-takes only 3x damage from quad damage to shields; takes 1.5x from double damage to shields; 75% pen from "Only cloaking" and "Only Ordnance Storage"; 85% pen from "Only Supply Storage"; 25% pen from "Only Ship Control"
Shield Level 6 Name := Temporal Shields
-50% resistant to "Skips all shields" and "Skips shields and Armor"; takes 1x damage from quad damage to shields; takes 1x from double damage to shields; "Only Shield Generators" has 50% pen and 0% damage; 50% pen from "Only cloaking" and "Only Ordnance Storage"; 65% pen from "Only Supply Storage"; 10% pen from "Only Ship Control"

Number Of Armor Levels := 10
Armor Level 1 Name := Adaptive Armor
-takes 75% damage from "Psychic" damage
Armor Level 2 Name := Neutronium Armor
Armor Level 3 Name := Anti-chroniton Armor
-takes 25% damage from quad damage to shields; "Skips Armor", "Only Engines", "Only Weapons", "Only Shield Generators", "Kills Crew", "Neutrino Burst", "Thalaron", and "Skips shields and Armor" have only 90% penetration; "Only Master Computers", "Slow Down", "Timed Control Loss", and "Timed Remove Experience" have 0% penetration; takes 80% damage from "Burn Armor"
Armor Level 4 Name := Biquadseptium Armor
Armor Level 5 Name := Dissipation Armor
- takes 150% damage from "Burn Armor"; 50% pen and 50% damage from "Neutrino Burst"; 90% pen from "Only cloaking", "Only Ship Control", "Only Ordnance Storage", and "Only Supply Storage"
Armor Level 6 Name := Emissive Armor
Armor Level 7 Name := Organic Armor
-takes 75% damage from "Psychic" damage
Armor Level 8 Name := Crystalline Armor
Armor Level 9 Name := Scattering Armor
Armor Level 10 Name := Normal Armor

yeah... I could rearrange this to take out several types that don't actually have resists... It's been so long I looked over this that I forgot some of it.


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must say I love it! After reading through the entire thread I have a few points.

In the Trek universe they actually had two main engines. You had the Warp Drive for FTL travel and the Impulse Engines for sub-light. As I see it Main screen ship movement would be your FTL (they moved in system with it too) and the actual combat done at sub-light speeds. Both are keeping up with Trek and I know you can differentiate somewhat between the two in SEV. I personally like the idea of having to balance out map vs. combat speed when designing a ship! I won't bother trying to come up any numbers or anything unless people are interested.

Second thing, I am a newb at modding, but is there any way I can help?

Lastly, my first game I noticed with the Romulans that the Maulers only advantages over disruptors are a small range increase and the actual space taken up on the design screen (and who ever runs out of that?). If you take the formula: D (damage) / R (reload time) / M (weapon mass) you'll see that Damage per kT.second is much higher for the standard disruptors. I'm going to go through and do a personal write up on all the weapons. I'll post it if you're interested.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farside wrote:
In the Trek universe they actually had two main engines. You had the Warp Drive for FTL travel and the Impulse Engines for sub-light. As I see it Main screen ship movement would be your FTL (they moved in system with it too) and the actual combat done at sub-light speeds. Both are keeping up with Trek and I know you can differentiate somewhat between the two in SEV. I personally like the idea of having to balance out map vs. combat speed when designing a ship! I won't bother trying to come up any numbers or anything unless people are interested.


I think this would actually be pretty simple to implement. Just go into VehicleSizes.txt and reduce the "Space Combat Maximum Speed Per Movement Point" values for all the ships to something really low (maybe zero, but that might break what I'm about to suggest). Next, add a new component somewhere early in the tech tree (say, Ion Engines, or a new starting tech), the Impulse Engine. This component would basically be Afterburners, but for ships instead of fighters. If you want, you could add a requirement that a ship be designed with as many impulse engines as it can carry standard engines, even though you really only need one, just to avoid the silliness of one impulse engine being able to propel a dreadnought as well as it can a frigate! (Well, it still could, if the others got damaged, but at least you'd need to design more on!)

Actually, it might make sense to go even further, and change the existing ship engines into impulse engines (and scale down the number you need on any given ship, to the point where the smallest ship needs only one), and add a new set of engines for warp propulsion - call them "warp nacelles", of course, and make them fairly bulky - say, 80kT or so, such that small ships would have one or two, while large ships would have four to eight. This would make the whole mod feel more "Trekkish"! Smile


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. You would have two separate lines of propulsion research, Impulse Theory and Warp Theory, VERY Trekkish! And if we have it tied into Warp Core Theory (Singularity Core Theory, ect.) with the requirement that each Nacelle Component requires it's own Warp Core. Similarly to how Crew Quarters Tie into Life Support. Maybe make a power output on the Warp Core that way if you've over researched one or the other (or found it in ruins or by ship capture) you might have one Core for a few Nacelles or a few Cores for one Nacelle.

Ok, so for ship movement we're talking about three separate lines of research.

Warp Theory - For the Nacelles
Power Generation Theory - For the Cores, ect.
Impulse Theory - Your "combat" engines.

Now how to code the AI into using all of this! I'm seriously studying how to code the AI just so it'll use the Star Trek tech and we can get rid of all the standard SEV weapons.


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't think that the number of warp cores would need to be equal to the number of nacelles. From what I recall, ships tended to have one warp core, regardless of how many nacelles they had - though I suppose larger ships did have bigger cores. But we don't need a hard restriction - if you want a fast ship that doesn't have much endurance, use more nacelles! If you want a slow ship that can fly around forever, use more cores! Smile

edit: the idea being that it's easier for game purposes to just let the player place multiple cores than to design several different sizes of core but limit them to one per ship!


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ ekolis

I'm not necessarily saying one core per naccelle. More trying to balance core output to nacelle output minimum. Like having a ship that uses 4 nacelles and has one small and simple core. It would force you to at least get a decent size core. Mostly I'm trying to make sure that a core is there just for "Trekkieness".

I'm also going through some of the tech and noticing a few problems. Listing them down now and going to post them later.

@ Marhawkman

Your Ginormous Carrier of Doom? What happens when it runs into the Borg Cube of Death?

Over 11 thousand points of shielding regenerating at almost 2,000 a second, 39,000 points of armor a good deal of it likewise capable of regeneration.



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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of print screen? Or just wanted to show off your new camera? Very Happy

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say that your Borg Cube has an impressive amount of armor... But it's armament is a bit unimpressive, 4 big guns(Matter conversion beams), 4 Medium(Slaver Laser), 7 PD(Disruptor field), 1 Ship Jet booster.

It's not bad, but mine has 4 MCB, 20 SL, 16 PD(5 DF, 11 PD Disruptor), 1 SJB,(Mine are Damage mounted) also it's a carrier, so you have to factor in the firepower of the 7200 kt worth of fighters it can carry. It launches in waves of 32 fighters. :p

Oh and it uses Subspace Deflector shields, so it has a pretty steep shield regeneration rate. I would give you the exact number, but I made that picture around 2 years ago and probably lost the save file. I'd guess the regeneration rate was 792. IIRC, SsD shields have always had a regeneration rate equal to 10% of the field strength.

Truthfully though, mine has all the armor I could put on it. This was from before I added armor mounts to the game, and in part, it's the reason why I added them.

But enough about that... I would love to see a break down of the relative power ratings of the weapons. Very Happy In truth, a lot of them have kinda arbitrary numbers.

You seem to have noticed the Ship Jet Booster. Very Happy I do like the idea of adding techs that mess with the disparity between in combat and out of combat ship speeds. But making seperate drive components for in combat and out of combat would be too much micromanagement IMO. In some mods, weapons and engines have no ordnance or supply storage, I've never liked it. Sure it does add a small amount of strategy, but it makes ship design bothersome. If I made it so that you had to have seperate engines for in and out of combat... it'd be just as annoying. But... components that act as a speed booster? sure. Smile


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My psychotic computer wasn't wanting to co-operate and do a screen capture at the time. The least of it's problems, lol.

And yeah, it's undergunned, but that's the point. It's practically indestructable.

On another note finding some more errors. Some annoying and some game breaking.

1 - Vidiians are not really using weapons at all. A few of their base designs do, but everything else doesn't

2 - Cardassian Base ships (see pic below) don't have a cap on the engine limit. You can keep stuffing them in till you run out of room.

3 - Bug with computer generated races: Neutral 009, FGC-47, and Phylosian. All of their info is intertwined and it seems to cause problems.

4 - Large and huge fighters don't show move per hex in their description. Seem to operate fine.

That's mostly all for now. Still working on the grand weapons report.

Look at it's speed rating!
ZIPITY DO DAH RUN RUN AWAY!



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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1: what designs are they using?

2: that's odd... Isn't that a regular baseship? I didn't add those. :/

*looks it up* Ok the error is that it has NumRequirements=5, but there are actually 6 with 20 or less engines as #6.
Oh and it's worse than you think. I used the BM baseship as a tenplate for adding several others... all of which seem to have that issue.

3: what problems?

4: hmm... ok.


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 - Standard Vidiian shipset, or are you wanting the actual design specs? I'm running all the star trek races at max tech. Speaking of which none of the races are set up to use the added weapons. Just a matter of coding them to do it though.

2 - Looks to be a simple fix then, if a bit long to do it.

3 - When SEV tries to load one of those races it tries to reference the others I think. Looking at the AI_Main and AI_General each looks to cross refence the other ones. I'm just now learning how to work the code for this so sorry for making my own terminology up.

4 - That is probably just a description text that got left out.

Other issues:

5 - Anti-Chroniton Missiles (and I would assume since they have the same promblem, Transphasic Missiles) work as beam weapons. In the item description they have no seeker stats and in battle they use beam graphics and point defense doesn't operate against them.

6 - Energy Damper - It lists as targeting seekers but it damages supplies? Are they functional against seekers or just the other space units?

7 - The AI seems to WAY over armor and under gun designs (the Cube of Death was a variation on and AI design.

Now that I have my computer willing to co-operate (for the meantime) and take screenshots do you want some? And if so where should I put them so I'm not spamming the board?

EDIT: The Vidiian shipset has a secondary race inside of it, the Abbai.

EDIT 2: OK, seems the reason for that (and others) is some of the races are remade from other mods. Are those files serving any reason? Also, some of the races are using extremely low end weapons (like DUCs) even having access full tech. I haven't gone through all of them yet though. Getting around to it slowly but surely.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1: the design category. Such as "Boarding ship", "Colony ship", etc...

2: correct

3: Well... it was an experiment. I was trying to figure out how to make minor races use soemthing other than the default shipset. In what way is it not working?

4: yes.

5: *looks up Anti-Chroniton Missile*
Code:
Weapon Type                                     := Seeking
Weapon Delivery Type                            := Missile
Code:
Weapon Display Type                             := Directed Torpedo
Weapon Space Display Effect Name                := Missile 9
I'm not sure what to tell you here... Both of those use that for their weapon type and display.

6: Huh?
Code:
Weapon Target Type List                         := Ship, Base, Fighter, Satellite, Drone, MegaSat
that should be what they can shoot at. What version of Warp 10 are you using?

7: it's one of the flaws in the way BM AIs work. The AI first decides what to out in as weapons, then fills remaining space with armor. often a ridiculous amount.

I typically use DA. Putting them on the board is fine though. Smile

E1: Well, when I was doing the initial version, I had to make drastic edits to certain shipsets to make them work. But... I already had copies of those sets that Arpeegy had used in Babylon 5 Wars mod. So I just used those. The Vidiian shipset was originally Interstellar Concordium Arpeegy used it for the Abbai. I'd have had to make equally extensive edits either way... I moved the files instead of deleting them, mainly because I don't like deleting stuff. The game ignores their existence as is.

E2: I'm using variations of the BM AI files. They'll need to be rewritten to improve AI weapon choices. Sad


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 - Ah, Attack Ship (S). The AI isn't using anything bigger than that for attack ships.

5 - Pic below.

6 - I'm using 2.2.35 Maybe it's an item description error. See below

7 - Hmn. I wonder if the armor mounts make it worse. Or could special armor be made that over all sucks, but is super light weight + cheap and then code the AI to use it over others. A work around however inelegant. Maybe even use the small armors?

I'm trying to learn how the AI chooses certain things and it doesn't seem overly complicated. I'll happily do it once I figure it out.

DA?

Edit: I think it only shows up in the Baseship and assault/stealth variants.
Want the fixed file?

http://files.spaceempires.net/user/3488/VehicleSizes.rar

On another note, I'm thinking of Q-ships. What do you think about that idea?






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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1: yeah, that might just be certain races though. There's an AI setting that tells them what size ships to build.

5: the Transphasic missile is just a difference in display. Look at the listed weapon type.

6: that might be something I fixed at some point.

7: actually... I don't think so. the only fix is to code the AI to use more weapons. Sad

DA = Deviantart(it's free)

Thanks, but I think you're probably using an old version of the mod. Sad

By Q-Ships do you mean armed freighters? you can do that already.


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5 - Zoomed in on the battle and the problem was I was using Disruptor Field guns. They say point defense, but are able to target ships. That coupled with being zoomed out the missiles are too hard to see.

6 - I'm running 2.2.35 that's the latest released version I could find. I found it here: https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=a8ebb1e1af6f54dc&id=A8EBB1E1AF6F54DC!152&authkey=!AEd0iArUt44Tck0

Cool, I'll have to set something up with DA then. Thanks for the info!

And on the Q-ship thing, yeah you can just slap regular guns on a freighter, but you still have the cargo limitation. I was thinking about a mount that confers the "cargo" ability with some drawbacks. Like maybe lessening the structure, range, and to hit. Also going to look into fake colony modules and try to figure out if you can "cloak" components.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6: Hmm... Try the version in here: http://pbw.spaceempires.net/forum/g/warpbattles/t/2858

Um... no, I don't think so. there are option related to making it hard to find out what a ship is, but they only work outside combat.


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Farside
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 25, 2013

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That download shows up as 2.2.3 I'll download and look at it, but the 2.2.35 I have should be newer.

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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe... the version numbers are just decoration unfortunately. I keep forgetting to change them.

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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ace like to see new mod, sorry not been on here in ages, im stuck in a game which is going great only problem is the AI are so established it takes an epic time to get to the next turn

might be something thats already been said but a little issue with the baseship I cant fill it there isnt enough sections on romulan shipset Smile

also got a question i cant work out, got laptop and pc, copied the same game from 1 to the other but whenever a friend sends the save game file it doesnt load up on the other


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Studentmac wrote:

also got a question i cant work out, got laptop and pc, copied the same game from 1 to the other but whenever a friend sends the save game file it doesnt load up on the other


Different mod versions, perhaps? Try copying the mod folder over from one to the other and running WinMerge to compare the folders...


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Studentmac
Space Emperor


Joined: Feb 13, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

copied the whole game and mod save worked then he does 1 turn and it doesnt work anymore lol

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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
7: it's one of the flaws in the way BM AIs work. The AI first decides what to out in as weapons, then fills remaining space with armor. often a ridiculous amount.


Armor is actually added before weapons, but if the design runs out of components to add before tonnage space runs out, it will fill out the rest of hull with armor. But that's not quite the issue here though - I'm assuming you've changed the vehicle sizes? The BM AI uses a table in Fx[Get_Weapon_Tonnage_To_Add] in Script_AI_DesignCreation which provides a max tonnage for weapons figure for each hull size amount. You'll have to update the values but it should improve the situation.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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