Mod Bug Reports

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

Please post mod bugs/complaints in this sticky. Also, when describing the bug please identify the empires involved so the issue can go to the appropriate modder. Thank you

HenkBrouwer · Space Emperor Joined: Oct 24, 2005

A small bug, i've run into amon'krie satellites (recon sats) with 4 basic sensors. They're early game designs from 2401.5, and in addition have a satellite computer core combat sensors and four armor.

LordZsar1 · Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject:

Game Version: 1.66
Mod Version: 1.08b FQM

Syntax:
"- " generic description of bug | generic description of outdated bug
"(" symptom "; " [symptom "; "]
range of affected AIs ")"

Bugs (or maybe just "strange behaviours"):

- ship design does not consider weapon technology levels
(should I grant an AI player high leveled "Organic Weapons", it will still use it's lower "Energy Stream Weapons" or "Energy Pulse Weapons" - choice seems to be predefined; my own "aggressive" Minister does the same;
this bug seems to affect all AIs)

- "System To Avoid" and "Marked Minefield" labels are ignored
(minister orders ships to survey systems to avoid; minister orders ships without mine sweepers to attack marked planets or warp points;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- choosable design types for players are not equal to these which ministers use
(as an interim solution for bug one a player may want to design his ships by himself, but his choice of design type is still standard SE5, so no "Gunship - Light", no "Archer (Light)", no "Patrol", only "Attack Ship" to suit all these...;
as this bug has nothing to do with the AI, it surely affects all minister types)

- AI deletes player made small hull designs if bigger hulls are available
(as players are individual beings noone can predict all their thoughts about a ship design... so ministers should better not delete player made designs at all;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- hostile system blockades are not recognized
(if a fleet is assigned to protect a warp point, through which an AI sends many single units, these are all destroyed and the AI sends new ones, which are destroyed as well... over years - instead system should be declared "to avoid" and battlegroup assigned to clear the path;
this bug affects Eee, Sergetti and "aggressive" ministers)

- obsolete satellites and weapon plattforms are not scrapped
(my home planet is "defended" in 2415.7 by units designed in 2405.4, whose design had been revised nine and ten times with most recent revision in 2415.0;
this bug affects Eee, Ethalu and "aggressive" ministers)

- colony ships are unnecessarily refitted
(if colony ship types are revised to fit "up to date" technology and representatives of the old type are still in a build list, these will be refitted as soon as their construction is complete - this is a waste of time and material as colony ships are disposables by game default;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- defensive fleets demand too much upkeep to allow migration
(some AIs try to establish defensive fleets very early in game and break down by supporting >= 20 ships with one or two planets; mostly some of these ships lack support and ordnance as well as there is nothing but a single stage one resupply depot;
this bug affects Apavi, Ethalu, Kivvaweo, Kopip)

- ships are assigned to fleets without applicable check of their appropriateness
(my minister formed a defensive fleet out of player designed "Attack Ship" entities, which were armorless, had maximum speed and were solely equipped with missile weapons... instead of using "Defense Ship" entities with heavy armour, point defense systems and close range weaponry but low speed;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- attack fleets are not formed
(well... what shall I say... that is what happened; this bug may be linked to bug three, that shall be tested;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and seems to affect Eee and Sergetti)

- "Organic Armor" and "Armor" are mixed
(this bug is related to bug one; although the AI apparently favours "Organic Armor" above the standard version, it still keeps adding one or two pieces of this, even if it's stage is still 1 - especially when there are two pieces of normal armour equipped, this weight could be put to a much better use;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- neither (suicide) drones nor drone carriers are used
("Drone Carrier", hull: "Org. Small Freighter", equipment: 10x "Contra - Terrene Engine" , 11x "Cargo Bay", 6x "Drone Launcher", 2x "Supply Storage";
"Anti-Planet Drone", hull: "Org. Small Drone", equipment: 12x "Contra - Terrene Engine", 1x "Anti - Planet Warhead Standard", 1x "ECM";
"Anti-Ship Drone", hull: "Org. Small Drone", equipment: 12x "Contra - Terrene Engine", 1x "Anti - Ship Warhead Standard", 1x "ECM";
I revised these designs three times from 2410.6 to 2415.0 and manually updated components between these revisions;
this bug seems to affect all AIs, as I never encountered any drone of any kind)

- damage done to defensive fleets is not repaired by delegation to "Space Yard Facility" or "Space Yard Ship"
(fighter groups are deployed for fast in-system defense and backed up with carriers later, but either does the AI "think", that carriers must have "Repair Bay" components or the retreat mechanism is broken, if there is one;
this bug affects "aggressive ministers" and seems to affect Eee - I did not encounter any Eee carriers yet to confirm the "Repair Bay" issue)

- production spending is not considered in material demand calculation
(production of bio mass per turn: 126.605, expense of bio mass per turn: 117.720 maintenance/82.947 production == 200.667 total - this paralyses my empire; as net value is positive for maintenance expense only, minister awards new ship productions; issue emerges as problem once fighter designs are created due to mass production which is not restricted to ship yards;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- sentries do not get "sentry" order and thus falsify "end of turn" reports
(I am told that 239 ships are without orders...;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- ships that are aquired due to espionage operations are scrapped instead of analysed
(nothing more to describe;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- effectiveness of "Live Support" and "Crew Quartes" is not considered in construction
(a "Starbase" type design will always contain five "Live Support" and eight "Crew Quarters" components, even if those of a higher stage support enough crew members in lower numbers;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and seems to affect all AIs)

- ships of type "Archer" receive basic scanners first instead of combat sensors
(both a "Ship - Archer (medium)" and a "Ship - Archer (light) were equipped with a single "Basic Sensor" but had no "Combat Sensor";
As such design types should not operate on their own by definition, basic sensors are much less important than combat sensor, are they not?;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- colony types are disregarded
(found a refining colony that was solely equipped with research labs and espionage centers, another (tiny) one that was filled by a space yard, a resupply depot and a space port;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- colonisation in times of short ressources severely aggravates the situation
(the first things to be build on a new colony are satellites and weapon plattforms - these increase the maintenace cost and if that is near it's limit, AI will stop building before additional conveying machines are constructed; I tried to counter a shortness of ressources - minerals and radioactive materials - by manual colonisatin but all I got was a big amount of empty planets on which nothing is built; this problem can solely be solved by the player's direct intervention, so any fully AI controlled empire is lost, should it arise;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and seems to affect Norak and Ukratal, but not in "high technology cost" games)

final remark:
The word "bug" was used as collective term for "possible defect", "inexplicable behaviour", "troublesome foible".
The range of effected AIs was stated in three gradings of certainty:
- "affects": It DOES.
- "seems to affect": Either it does or something makes it look like it does.
- no reference: There is no idea, if it does.
There is no matter to feel discouraged by this huge looking list. It is much shorter than it would be for vanilla SE5.

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

Hey LordZsar1,

First, thanks for posting. Its the best way for me to know what to improve. Unfortunately I dont have the time to both play, and mod the AI. Which leaves me with looking for general trends rather than seeing individual problems.

To Answer a couple of your notes.

1) You are correct, ship designs do not consider weapon levels, each race has their own favorite weapons mix and will use these weapons no matter what technology they have available. This is something I hope to remedy in a future version (1.10 hopefully).
2) Your right, System to Avoid does about nothing for my AI, more or less the same for marked minefields. The AI at some point starts putting mine sweepers on alot of its ships and will simply sweep them aside (especially for attack fleets). Until then it can be like lemmings. I look into it some more though.
3) Design Type issues will be fixed for next release (hopefully to be released the 16th or 17th of this month). You will see the same design options that the AI has.
4) AI deleting ship designs: I'm not sure the procedures for this, but it wasnt designed to use both human designs and AI designs. I'll see if I can find a way to handle this or make a work around.
5) Blockaded Systems, Unfortunately still lemming style. Its on the to do list, but wont change for the next patch very much.
6) Obsolete satellites and weapon platforms. THere is a scrapping system for weapon platforms but it is pretty slow and low percentage (dont want to scrap too many at once, or all on the planet), but I may take a look at upping the rate for planets that are not in danger. Satellites I may do the same, though I need to take into consideration their sensor role also.
7) Good job spotting this, I should be able to fix it so Colonizers are not retrofitted.
Cool

Too big defensive fleets - I dont recognize these empires, are they neutrals or are they races you created on game start up, or created through intelligence attacks? If they are neutral (which I would guess they are), neutrals never leave their home system.

9) Ships are assigned to fleets based on their design type. If your ships are not using the ship design types the AI is looking for then they wont be handled very well (if used at all). The next release gives the player the same options for ship design types as the computer, but if a player uses their own or the current default types the results will be poor.
10) The attack fleets themselves are probably there but ships are not joining them because of the wrong designs types mentioned above.
11) The design creation uses the final space on a ship for extra weapons, shields and armor after placing all the required components (determined by the design). It uses the regular armor because its small (5 I believe) versus the organic which uses more (30 I believe). Not many things use that little space.

Next Post
1) Not really spending time on Neutrals, besides maybe they can detect or see the warppoints but not properly use them. Oh well.
2) The next version will check to see if a ship can be refitted before scrapping (not counting scrapping/lost ship for lack of resources). If it can be refitted then it wont be scrapped. Also, found the error for not scrapping units, this will be fixed for next release (thanks again).
3) There have been fixes to both kamikaze ship design and drones so that AI can make them now (next release). How much they will be used I'm not sure yet.
4) I have noticed this myself and not sure why defensive fleets are repairing correctly. There should be code for it, but I'll have to check some more.

Latest Post
1) Production spending should count what it is using not simply maintenance. Hove you lost recent trade agreements, or done anything to significantly reduce organic income in a turn or two? There may be a bug somewhere though.
2) AI doesnt use sentry mode, so I have made no efforts for putting it in for human use. Very low priority.
3) Yeah, havent coded anything for this. It may not have even possible until the recent versions. I'll put it on the to do list.

1) Went through the code again and found a bug with the AI not properly counting the resources it uses on new constructions. It will be fixed for the next version and should explain why your empire went overboard on construction and lack of organics.

Also I have increased the AIs building of organics for organic races, to try and keep larger margins of excess organics. This should also help.

1) The Sergetti ship designs are part of Corellon's AI, so I'd post it under his bug thread (or I may try and bump it in a little bit).

- I'll check on the space stations/starbases, the code should be checking actual needs for crew/lifesupport and not set numbers of life support and crew quarters.
- Archers dont get combat sensors because they dont help their main weapon (seekers aka missiles). The only thing combat sensors would improve would perhaps be point defense.
- Colony Types are used for guidelines for what the AI should build on the planet. However, there cutoffs for when the AI has too many excess resources that it will stop building more resource extractors of that type and instead build research and intel (once there arent as many excess resources it will begin building the appropriate resource extractor again. Also the first colonies in a solar system are designated to build a space port, and resupply depot, and space yards are built on a planets based on a formula that includes how many space yards the race has, how many there are in the system, the size of the planet and the AI also takes into consideration the colony type. These sound like they are working pretty much correctly.

1)My AI is designed to stop building ships and units when it gets down to a certain amount of excess resources (say 10 or 15%). At which point it will only build buildings. It wouldnt/shouldnt have gotten itself in the negative situation without the earlier noted bug of not correctly counting resources used on new construction. It also will spend treasury resources on upgrades and new resource facilities.

Satellites, the new version has only 1 satellite built per planet used mostly for sensors. (They sometimes get picked up and moved to warppoints though).

Also I have reduced the amount of planets upgrading facilities at a time (about 20% per turn now). This should help the AI not constantly update its facilities instead of building more useful stuff.

Thanks for all the comments, keep them coming.
I need to get back to work for now, but I'll try to finish this post later

-Unnamed

Corellon · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 21, 2008

The delay in release is mostly my fault, I tried to get my scripts ready for release by the weekend and by last monday I was down to just final testing and last minute fixes, however I did not anticiplate being bedridden with the flu for about week and it set me back.

I've compiled a long list of changes into the next version, fixing issues with upgrading, and (what too most of the testing) getting defenses to be keep current and timely (Lack of early defense killed the empires too early last version) so no more should there be completely obsolete units floating around any planet.

Also improved is planet utilization, and race setup scripts have been adjusted to add racial traits that are benificial to the scripting style, while still giving each a unique flavor.

If all goes well with this final test run tonight then I'll send my updated scripts off to unnamed in the morning, everything's been working fine with the last minute "glitch" of the AI trying to build 65,583 weapon platforms on a planet, I'm starting to reach a few hidden "limits" in the compliler where it's acting funny with statements becoming to nested and complex and acting to odd ends, resualting in my having to sperate and simplify some statements.

LordZsar1 · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:56 am Post subject:

Game Version: 1.66
Mod Version: 1.09 FQM

Syntax:
"- " generic description of bug | generic description of outdated bug
"(" symptom "; " [symptom "; "]
range of affected AIs ")"

Bugs (or maybe just "strange behaviours"):

- new colonies can be of type "Homeworld"
(this type should be available for "homeworlds" - colonies at start of a new game - only;
this bug affects all ministers)

- "Unit Hunters" are handled inappropriately
(AI loves to create fleets solely out of members of this design type, which do not possess anti-ship weapons and thus are easily compromised even by single "Scout" ships coming along accidentally; they should be deployed in groups with anti-ship entities only;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers, Phong and Cue Cappa and seems to affect all AIs)

- "Archers (light)" are handled inappropriately
(AI loves to use members of this design type for system survey, which should be reserved for scouts; most of these ships are not assigned to fleets, in which they could perform their sniping role well protected against fast and heavily armed enemies;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and seems to affect all AIs)

- ship design type's purposes are partly indistinguishable
(example: "Ship - Front Line"; does this refer to a battle's front or to a whole war's front; that appears to be similar to "Ship - Battle Line" in the first case and to "Ship - Skirmisher" in the second one; detailed assignment profiles for each type should be published in a separate topic;
this bug has nothing to do with AIs)

- ships are not refitted when obsolete
(three generations of frigate design, not a single refit; those of obsolete designs are scrapped though;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- weapon platforms are not scrapped when obsolete
(again: three generations of design, not a single scrapped unit;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and Cue Cappa)

- "Armor" has too high priority in unit design
("Ship - Archer (light)": 7x "Armor", could be 1x "Organic Armor" and 1x "Armor"; "Ship - Unit Hunter": 9x "Armor", could be 1x "Organic Armor" and 3x "Armor"; "Weapon Platform": 10x "Armor", could be 1x "Organic Armor" and 4x "Armor"; designs from 2400.1 - two turns after game's start; "Ship - Repair": 10x "Armor", 1x "Organic Armor", could be 4x "Armor" and 2x "Organic Armor";
this bug affects "aggressive" Ministers of races with trait "Organic Manipulation")

- design type "Satellite (Recon)" is not available for player
(this bug has nothing to do with AIs)

- AIs apparently never accept proposals from players
(three times I sent treaty proposals to different AIs and they refused - only to send identical proposals to me in the next turn; accidentally I countered a treaty proposal without changing anything - it was denied;
this bug seems to affect all pure AIs)

- although frequently demanding removal of colonies from systems, AI never does itself
(Situation: Ukra-Tal, Cue Cappa and my empire occupied a system, without anyone having a treaty with anyone else; Ukra-Tal got one colony, Cue Cappa got five, I got three; I wanted both to retreat, none did; Cue Cappa behaved right - possessing superior numbers, but Ukra-Tal had no chance to hold themselves and should have retreated; this bug may be related to bug nine; Corellon informed;
this bug seems to affect all pure AIs)

- ships are ordered to jump to and fro between linked warp points
(example: Move to Tegmen coordinates (3, 9), Warp, Move to Tegmen coordinates (3, 9), Warp, Move to Tegmen coordinates (3, 9), Warp, etc...; this is often repeated over several turns;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- designs of type "Ship - Repair" are created without "Repair Bay"
(example: "Ship - Repair", "Org. Frigate (250 kT)", 10x "Armor", 1x "Organic Armor", 12x "Ion Engine", 1x "Cargo Bay"; ship has to have less speed - max. seven engines;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- fleets do not check for readiness before attacking
(a fleet composed of battle ships and a repair ship may be decimated in battle, so that only the repair ship remains - it will still try to attack;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- "Point - Defense Beam" has too high priority in design
(by espionage operations I aquired "Energy Stream Weapons" stage three and now all new ship designs are equipped with stage three "Point - Defense Beam" instead of stage seven "Point - Defense Cannon" or stage three "Flak Cannon"/"Bomblet Missile";
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- effectiveness of "Live Support" is not considered in construction
(a "Space Station" type design will always contain two "Live Support" components, even if at stage six a single one would be enough;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and seems to affect all AIs)

- stations are equipped with mine sweepers
(they should not need them, should they;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- Design type labels for colony ships are different for player and AI
(AI designed types are labelled "Colonizer - <colony type>", while player can only choose "Ship - Colony (<colony type>)"; as the second variant fits better into the general naming convention - "<unit type> - <purpose> (<size suffix>)", I advise to favour it over the first one;
this bug has nothing to do with AI)

- ships of type "Mine Sweeper" receive strategy "Optimal Firing Range" despite being unarmed
(should be "Don't get hurt" as for all non combatant entities;
this bug affects "aggresive" ministers)

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

1) New Colonies can be type 'Homeworld': since you can start with up to 10 colonies there isnt necessarily only one homeworld. If it makes you feel better, consider these 'Homeworld like Colonies' big with lots of space, proper atmosphere and a balanced build approach instead of a specialist build approach.

2) Unit Hunters behavior - A while back I increased their usage because people relied on fighters so much. (I think fighters have since been reduced in strength somewhat but not sure) I'm considering reducing their build priority, but I may put a function in to check the composition of the fleet before attacking. Either way its on the list to be addressed.

3) Archer behavior - All combat capable ships are set to do some exploring if they are right next to unexplored space. But you are right, scouts should do any long distance exploring. I'll add this to the list of corrections.

4) Ship design types - these were mostly taken from the old IRM mod, anyway I'm not 100% sure the differences myself. I'm not going to take the time right now to mess with them though. Eliminating or changing them could throw other stuff out of whack.

5) Ships not refitting: Ships are not automatically refitted once they become obsolete (otherwise they would spend all their time at planets). There is a time factor involved and a cost factor in addition to simply being obsolete. Let me know if they never retrofit through a whole game; its possible I broke the refit function when tring to fix it last release.

6) Weapon Platform Scrapping: They have to be a certain age old, and then they have a small random chance of being scrapped. If its fairly early in the game, then give it time. If it never happens over a longer game, let me know again and I will double check.

7) Emphasis on Armor: Did you start the game with organic manipulation researched? If not then the AI would naturally use regular armor when it made its initial designs. If so enough time hasnt passed for it to update the designs with organic armor.

Cool

Lack of Recon Satellite Design type: Its now on the list, will be fixed for next release.

Thanks for the comments and keep them coming.

-Unnamed

LordZsar1 · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:15 am Post subject:

1) Would this not offer a way to cheat in "Destroy all Homeworlds" mode?
2) Their amount is alright. Fighters are a pain. Only their use is inacceptable - AI tries to attack planets and capital ships with them... and solely with them.
5) & 6) Can you tell me a rough estimate, how much time after becoming obsolete will indicate malfunction?
7) Bug is verified: All but these three design types are equipped with "Organic Armor" in favour over "Armor" ("All" means all these, which are created in the second turn of a new game).

Extinction of 1.08b's bugs ten and fourteen has been verified.

- AIs apparently never accept proposals from players
(three times I sent treaty proposals to different AIs and they refused - only to send identical proposals to me in the next turn; accidentally I countered a treaty proposal without changing anything - it was denied;
this bug seems to affect all pure AIs)

- although frequently demanding removal of colonies from systems, AI never does itself
(Situation: Ukra-Tal, Cue Cappa and my empire occupied a system, without anyone having a treaty with anyone else; Ukra-Tal got one colony, Cue Cappa got five, I got three; I wanted both to retreat, none did; Cue Cappa behaved right - possessing superior numbers, but Ukra-Tal had no chance to hold themselves and should have retreated; this bug may be related to bug nine; Corellon informed;
this bug seems to affect all pure AIs)

Corellon · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 21, 2008

LordZsar1 · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:32 am Post subject:

Extinction of 1.08b's bug seventeen has been verified.
Bug seven has received additional symptom description.
Bug nine has proven to be a false report.

- ships are ordered to jump to and fro between linked warp points
(example: Move to Tegmen coordinates (3, 9), Warp, Move to Tegmen coordinates (3, 9), Warp, Move to Tegmen coordinates (3, 9), Warp, etc...; this is often repeated over several turns;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- designs of type "Ship - Repair" are created without "Repair Bay"
(example: "Ship - Repair", "Org. Frigate (250 kT)", 10x "Armor", 1x "Organic Armor", 12x "Ion Engine", 1x "Cargo Bay"; ship has to have less speed - max. seven engines;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- fleets do not check for readiness before attacking
(a fleet composed of battle ships and a repair ship may be decimated in battle, so that only the repair ship remains - it will still try to attack;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

Greystar · Space Emperor Joined: Jan 08, 2008 Location: 8th Dimension

As far as the Destroy All Homeworlds think and cheat mentioned... No it would not provide a way to cheat. According to an answer I got in regards to naming another planet homeworld. They said "No the system you start in is your HomeSystem by a hard coded flag." - (I think Fyron said that but not 100% sure.) So no matter what planet you call homeworld if your original planet/system was captured/destroyed you'll loose. I don't know if that was mentioned in here at all... Just wanted to point it out. I've been renaming my homeworld for a while, just because I didn't like the system the game started me out with, so I name another system I like with a planet called Homeworld.

LordZsar1 · Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:31 am Post subject:

Sure, but how to know which planet to target?
If there is a "Homeworld" labelled planet each two systems, matching athmosphere and size of the starting planet (and if starting with multiple planets, these data can vary), how shall a poor player figure out which one to attack?
There one invests espionage points into getting out which one is what and then there are two discovered... or three... or four.

Of course, this is no problem right now, as AI players are excluded from the "Destroy all Homeworlds" target - but let two or three versions of this mod pass and surely it will be possible to allow their participation due to adequate abilities.

- "Point - Defense Beam" has too high priority in design
(by espionage operations I aquired "Energy Stream Weapons" stage three and now all new ship designs are equipped with stage three "Point - Defense Beam" instead of stage seven "Point - Defense Cannon" or stage three "Flak Cannon"/"Bomblet Missile";
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- effectiveness of "Live Support" is not considered in construction
(a "Space Station" type design will always contain two "Live Support" components, even if at stage six a single one would be enough;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and seems to affect all AIs)

... In my current testing game, it is 2407.7 now. No ship refitted, no weapon platform scrapped. I play with minister design activated, so designs are updated roughly all three or four turns.
Is that enough time to consider the algorithm broken?

- stations are equipped with mine sweepers
(they should not need them, should they;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

Homeworlds: The AI has not been taught to play the game as a "kill all homeworlds" as a goal, if it was, the first thing it would do is rename its planets and change the types so that others would not know from simply looking at them. People would have to infer from the size of the planet, the population, the location in the empire and everything else. So if you are playing against the AI in this mode, consider it leveling the playing field a little if they do start naming colonies homeworlds (which they rarely if ever do). Versus another human player, it would have to be someone you directly connect with and using this mod for some reason. It has not been implemented for PBW, so there really arent many issues there. Besides a human player could again rename its planets and planet types anyways.

As for a couple versions from now, lets hope I still have time to work on this in a couple months. Real world jobs are calling my name, and it wont be too much longer that I can keep putting them off.

Point Defense Beams: Again there is a predefined favorite weapons for each race. As noted above they do not care what is available normally only what their favorite weapons. This is already noted, but thanks for the reminder.

Life Support: It is taken into account from every test I have ever run, not sure why you would get a different result. On second thought, what is probably happening is that, the life support is merely being upgraded, not redesigning the ship. So once the two life support get on a particular design type, then they wouldnt change. .... .... Something to think about.

Ships Jumping To and Fro: Not sure what this is, havent really seen it myself. What class/type of ships was it? Do you see this alot?

Repair Ships Missing Repair Bay: I dont know, I'll look into it. Corrected, found the culprit, design wont continue unless appropriate space for all required components now.

Fleets not checking Status: Its high priority on the to do list. Thanks

AI doesnt fulfill some demands: Known, on the list.

Mine Sweepers on Bases: Will look into it, thanks.

Armor on Various Designs: Armor is added at different times, at beginning for a required amount and to fill in left over space at the end of a design. When adding armor at the end it doesnt currently look at what was already spent on armor and combine the two amounts. I'll look into if its even possible to consider the whole amount remove the wrong armor and put the right amount in during the final phase.

AI not scrapping Weapon Platforms: The code is correct but it is trying to use a minister that doesnt exist. Will be fixed for next version.

AI not retrofitting: Sounds like it may be broken. Ship must be obsolete (newer design of same ship size (frigate, destroyer, etc)), 20 turns old, not low on treasury resources, new design cost not more than 150% of the old design, and most importantly not doing anything more important. Ships wont leave current tasks or fleet unless nothing really to do. Dont want to weaken a fleet when in the middle of an attack, etc.

Thanks.

-Unnamed

LordZsar1 · Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject:

How does a self-created race get it's predefined favorite weapon...
Oh, I know, it uses "Default" AI, does it not? Mmh, that calls for a kind of a customisation - for some races, these may fit, for others they may not.
I doubt that this is possible to solve "ingame" - it would require some sort of "set form" while creating a race and of course separate AI files for each custom race...
Maybe something one could do with an external program, but it had to...
I will stop thinking about this right now. I do not want to become addicted to the idea too much.

I can tell you, which ships do NOT jump to and fro a warp connection:
- Colonizers
- Transports
- Fighters
- everything inside a defensive fleet
Once only scouts are dedicated for exploration/survey tasks, I will be able to further examine it (it seems to happen always between sectors that have unexplored warp points, but that may be coincidence, as it is quite hard not to find such sectors, especially in early game).
Oh, it happens very much with vanilla AI, your one did only two or three times within more than seventy turns, so it is no problem of high priority.

Something else for your "to do"-list, which is not important for gameplay but would greatly ease the bug hunt: Let the AI use one name for one kind of design type and just add an index to the end (no matter if roman or arabic - can even be a binary or hexadecimal value, I do not care if only the name remains constant).
In that way, I could easily identify a ship's type by looking to it's name (even though this name may differ from game to game), which is very useful as in most parts of the user interface, accessing this crucial information is quite "uncomfortable".
Should the numbers (or identifiers of any other kind) "increase" in some defineable way, it would also ease the overview about old ship and unit types: How many, how old, doing what, all cognizable by browsing the ship list one single time - right now impossible (I may see a warship and a transport which are labelled identical... confusing)

- Design type labels for colony ships are different for player and AI
(AI designed types are labelled "Colonizer - <colony type>", while player can only choose "Ship - Colony (<colony type>)"; as the second variant fits better into the general naming convention - "<unit type> - <purpose> (<size suffix>)", I advise to favour it over the first one;
this bug has nothing to do with AI)

- ships of type "Mine Sweeper" receive strategy "Optimal Firing Range" despite being unarmed
(should be "Don't get hurt" as for all non combatant entities;
this bug affects "aggresive" ministers)

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

The ship skipping between warp connections may happen when the pathfinding for the ship sees that the path is blocked and tries to go another route and as soon as it loses sensor range of the blocking force it tries the original path again. Dont know for sure.

Design lables for colonizers: I will fix this, but it will probably use the AI version since all the scripts are dependent on design type. Thanks for the catch.

Strategy for Mine Sweepers: Got it thanks.

-Unnamed

LordZsar1 · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject:

Extinction of 1.08b's bug seven has been verified.

No, I have to abnegate this. When spotting hostile entities blocking a warp point, the ship will never reach it. Instead, it will close in until "seeing" the enemy (if no other friendly entity has intervisibility), move one field back - move to and fro this field and the next one.
As far as I kept track, the presence of hostile/neutral entities plays no role at all (the behaviour can be foreseen - the orders will be stacked even before the ship reaches the system).
... Oh, yes, this is constant - so, maybe it is related to long range pathfinding?

... I will delay my hunt until the next version is ready.
The persistent defects severely harden reconnaissance, namely these:
Two, three, five, thirteen, fourteen, seventeen, 1.08b one.
Had I any influence in development, I advised to correct these first (and to implement the draft proposal in my previous post ^^).

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

Thanks for your efforts LordZsar1,

If you want to know what the status of my improvement process (whats being changed/improved) you can check out the page below.

http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/UAM/Future_Releases

-Unnamed

LordZsar1 · Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:

... You... work... fast.
Well, that is good for me, so I shall not complain, but... what about these poor tiny "real world jobs"? Would they not feel very lost without your prized, desired and longed for attention?

addendum:
Mmh, apparently I wrote this as in "famous last words"... it is the 16th and it is March, as well as 2008... Well, let me just hope that you are in a different time zone far far west from me...

LordZsar1 · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:54 am Post subject:

Game Version: 1.66
Mod Version: 1.10 FQM

Syntax:
"- " generic description of bug | generic description of outdated bug
"(" symptom "; " [symptom "; "]
range of affected AIs ")"

Bugs (or maybe just "strange behaviours"):

- FQM files do not match current version 5B14
("QuadrantTypes.txt" counts 252.855 Bytes, should be 262.677; "StellarAbilityTypes.txt" counts 175.241 Bytes, should be 175.580; other unmatching files are "StellarObjectTypes.txt", "SystemTypes.txt", "XFileClasses_Stellar.txt", "solar_systems.py", "solarfnc.py" and many more; possibly outdated version or corrupted archive;
this bug has nothing to do with AI)

- AI attempts to colonise planets unknown to it
(observed a foreign colony ship traverse three systems of my territory, that finally arrived at a planet beyond my home system; these sectors formed a thread and thus no scout or any other ship could have passed through before; it was also just half a dozen turns from the game's start; the player CANNOT have had this system surveyed before; maybe it is of note, that there were ruins on that planet;
second encounter - new game - was a colony ship traversing one system with fitting, unclaimed planets and at least three more systems without fitting planets; again, game date was extremely early: 2403.3; ship was destroyed by freshly formed attack fleet of mine;
this bug affects Drushocka)

LordZsar1 · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:34 am Post subject:

Extinction of 1.08b's bugs three and six has been verified.
Extinction of 1.09's bugs five, six, eight and seventeen has been verified.

1.09's bug eleven severely aggraveted in frequency. As I evaluated, it is related to the scouting algorithm as only scout ships fell lapsed into it now:
"Move to Nashira coordinates (-2, 9)
Warp
Move to Menkalinan coordinates (-3, 9)
Warp
Move to Algieba coordinates (4, -9)
Warp
Move to Algieba coordinates (4, -9)
Warp
Move to Algieba coordinates (4, -9)
Warp
Move to Algieba coordinates (4, -9)
Warp"
Note that the first system to be headed for is always a system that does not appear on the map. Also note the second coordinate of the warp points - it may be coincidence, but I "buy into" that I saw the absolute value '9' pretty often as second coordinate related to this oddity.

Note of curiosity:
"Scrapping" population? Well, in my country there is a kind of tradition of doing this but... did not all the world judge this as kind of "barbarous", back then?
Well, different strokes for different times, I guess. ^^

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

Hey LordZsar1,

Quick reply before I get to work.

1) I forgot to update to the new FQM. I dont think it will be a problem, only not the newest stuff.

2) Some races have seen the whole galaxy at start (one of the Racial Traits) they could go after any planet for colonization.

3) Interesting bug with trying to go to a system that doesnt show up on the map. I might have to report that to Aaron then.

Note of Curiosity: Scrapping population (in the right circumstances) undomes a colony making it have 5 times the space for facilities.

-Unnamed

LordZsar1 · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:26 am Post subject:

Are the Drushocka one of these races? And if they are, why do the Eee not do the same?

- (kamikaze) Drones, which loose their weapons spam battle sectors
(if an approaching drone is hit by point defense, it often looses it's warhead and thus stopps it's attack; it will not retreat however and thus remains in the sector until hunted down; thus it will trigger a combat each turn, in which the drone runs away and everything else tries to catch it unsuccessfully; drones should ram their targets even without an intact warhead to prevent this;
this bug affects all AIs)

- ressource gathering has too low priority
(now, that the AI creates troops and that in great numbers, the economy oscillates between phases of stagnation due to preventive halt of and phases of topped out production; a minor adjustment should already solve the problem completely;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

Unnamed · Moderator Joined: Dec 30, 2007

Drushocka are one of those races. Eee were not given this trait with the stock setup files (for any racial points selection) so I didnt include it as a trait in my changes either. I was trying to keep at least a semblance of similarity to the old stock setup files.

Kamikaze Drones - The strategies I'm looking at should not allow this. I'll check if they got updated for the actual release. I'm hoping its not a hardcoded thing somewhere. Also you were using FQM version, correct?

Resource Gathering - What is the adjustment you suggest? More resources/less intel & research? Less Troops? Something else? Also was this a small, medium, or large galaxy?

-Unnamed

LordZsar1 · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:40 am Post subject:

Alright for the Drushocka, then. I unmark the bug.

Well, as the first (and worst) "economic recession" occurs when troops are first deployed, I suggest to delay this event's date by some turns.
To avoid the successors, well, take a (very) tiny bit of all other priorities.
This "very tiny bit" may be in fact just one or two percent at all.

My test games so far took place in "Large" Quadrants of type "Dying" (two times) and "Mid-Life" (one time).
As I broke the save/load-functions of SE5 by accident (deleted the empty folder "temp", causing access violations when trying to save or load), there is no game of above thirty turns yet, but I shall fix that tonight.

LordZsar1 · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject:

Situation:
Attack Fleet composed of 23x "Ship - Unit Hunter", 3x "Ship - Kamikaze", 2x "Ship - Repair" and 1x "Transport - Supply" attempts to attack a colony in a system, that does not contain any own colonies; there is no treaty between the fleet owner and colony owner;

"Unit Hunter":
Frigate (250 kt)
- 12x "Ion Engine" 1
- 1x "Combat Sensors" 2
- 2x "Ordnance Storage" 1
- 2x "Supply Storage" 1
- 1x "Depleted Uranium Cannon" 2
- 2x "Point - Defense Cannons" 2

"Kamikaze":
Frigate (250 kt)
- 12x "Ion Engine" 1
- 2x "Cobalt Warhead" 3

"Repair"
Frigate (250 kt)
- 6x "Ion Engine" 1
- 1x "Repair Bay" 1
- 2x "Supply Storage" 2

"Supply"
Frigate (250 kt)
- 10x "Ion Engine" 1
- 2x "Organic Armor" 1
- 12x "Supply Storage" 1

All designs have been created by me, design minister is deactivated since start of game.

- fleet composition is not appropriate for planetary assault
(unit hunters are unit hunters, why does the AI not choose "Ship - Assault", "Ship - Archer (light)", "Ship - Drone Carrier (light)", "Transport - Troop" designs for its attack;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- designs created by player are judged differently from designs created by minister
(the AI likes my "Unit Hunter" design far too much: 41 "Unit Hunters" are in service, 64 ships in total, four of these are colonizers and do not count due to their temporary nature, this means more than 68% "Unit Hunters"; this does not happen if the AI designs everything by itself;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- offensive force is wasted on uninteresting targets
(colonies should be attacked, if players are at war or if the fleet owner has own colonies in the same system without a "Allow colonization in each others systems" treaty;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

Other problems:

- unit production does not check for appropriate cargo space
(turn per turn I get messages that a satellite/troop/weapons platform could not be produced as the planet's free space is filled up; production should consider these factors: planned amount of weapons platforms has to be reserved, "Space Yard Outpost", "Military Installation", "Homeworld" type colonies should reserve additional cargo space for fighter/satellite production, most on the firstly, fewest on the lastly listed type; troops should only fill up unbooked space;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- planets are sometimes ordered to produce '0' units
(spotted with "Satellite" and "Troop (light)" designs, there was enough space to produce at least one of the ordered entity;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- planets are sometimes idle even though there are facilities to upgrade
(although upgrading should not interfere with building/production, it should be done if possible, to max out overall efficiency; observed idlenesses sometimes contiuned over several turns; all ressources were produced in excess during observation period;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers)

- inappropriate ships are ordered to survey systems
(a ship should at least possess one intact component that increases it's sensor range - "Basic Sensors", "Tachyon Sensors" or "Psychic Receptors";
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers with player designed ships)

- planets do not scrap units in effective scales
(currently, one unit is scrapped per turn - twenty units == twenty turns before all are recycled; most planets are able to produce two weapons platforms per turn or more than a dozen troops, thus scrapping can be accelerated greatly by scrapping as much of a unit type as the planet can produce in one turn;
this bug affects "aggressive" ministers and seems to affect all AIs)

- by analysing boarded ships, it is possible to reach higher technology stages than allowed
(just analysed some Phong frigates and discovered "Light Hull Construction" stages 11 and 12, but there are only 10; unsure if Phong indeed developed this techology too high or if it is a bug in the analysis algorithm;
this bug may affect all AIs or perhaps has nothing to do with AI at all)

- "Kamikaze" Ships with "Kamikaze" strategy never ram targets
(these ships choose a target, chase it and try to maintain range 0 to it, but do not explode; ordering them to "ram" a target manually has the desired effect, though;
this bug seems to affect all AIs)

I did additional evaluation work about bug four and discovered that there is no need for more ressource extractors. It is entirely sufficient to build them earlier.
All in all it is nothing but the old 1.08b's bug twenty: Once the ressources grow short, building is reduced... unfortunately, this includes building and upgrading of ressource extractors and thus elongates the "depression".