About Small DUC...

Grendelio · Space Emperor Joined: Dec 09, 2006 Location: Spain

Small DUC have only 25 ammo rounds. That means a max. damage/100% hits of 150 points (at level 1)... In comparison, small rocket pods with 20 ammo rounds can deal 1000 points of damage. more than 6 times.

In addition, emmisive armor can seriously reduce small DUC effectivity, making it neccesary higher amounts of ammo...

My suggestion is to increase the ammo capacity for small DUC to 30. This will make the weapon more useful, and less painful to resupply a carrier full of DUC fighters, that need huge amounts of ammo to do real damage.

Litcube · Space Emperor Joined: May 01, 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC

I've found that the small DUCs are still handy for hunting down those last few straggling fighters that managed to escape (in normal circumstances, your ships won't be able to catch enemy fighters). The small rocket pods can't fire on fighters. Maybe a weak justification for small DUCs.

Dvoongar · Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject:

I don't consider this to be an imbalance. Two DUC's will almost fit in the space of a Small Rocket, and they have a much faster rate of fire. Furthermore, the small DUC hitches a ride on the tech tree, while the Small Rockets must be paid for on their own.

Yes, the DUC suffers greatly against Emissive Armor. That's the whole point of this armor. If it doesn't help against the piddliest weapon in the game, what good is it?

The change you've recommended is small, and a small change shouldn't hurt, since the balance is pretty good to begin with. I could more easily see a reduction in ammo for the rockets, since it'll take 'em 25 years to fire off what they have anyhow, and a realism argument could be made as well.

ColonialAdmiral · Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:18 am Post subject:

But thats the problem with DUCs in general. Sure they have a faster firing rate than missiles. Sure you can put more on. But with a DUC it's nearly immpossible to close in on another moving ship that has a missile...

ekolis · Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 1:40 am Post subject:

I would think that perhaps the rockets should *consume* more ammo... I mean, if you're looking at real-world fighters, a rocket is a lot bigger and more expensive than an autocannon bullet Razz

DarKnight770 · Space Emperor Joined: Oct 03, 2005

For that matter, ship weapons are ten times the size of fighter weapons doing much more damage, and both consume the same ammount of ordnace... no wonder it tough keeping carriers supplied

Grendelio · Space Emperor Joined: Dec 09, 2006 Location: Spain

Let me explain miself again, now with a "real" situation. Talking about a single small DUC may not show the problem, so the better is to think in numbers:

Let´s think about an average light carrier, lvl 2, with 8 lvl 2 fighter bays. It carries 50 light fighters (lvl 3).

- If the 50 fighters have Small rockets (1 component, lvl 1), they can deal a max damage of 50.000 points. Resupply their weapons after that will cost 1000 supplies and 1000 ammo. That is 20Kt worth in supply storage components and 50Kt worth in ammo storage components. Total, 70 Kt, not bad.

- If the 50 fighters ar armed with 2 Small DUC, they can deal a max damage of 15.000 points. More than 3 times less... but problem comes with resupply: they will need 2500 ordnance and 2500 supplies. that means 50Kt worth in supply storage components and 125 Kt worth in ordnance storage components: Total 175 Kt... To deal the same amount of damage than fighters with rocket pods it is neccesary to spent 590Kt worth in supplies/ordnance!

-Now think about Small APB. 50 fighters with 2 small APB will use only 50 Kt worth of supplies to shot the same amount of rounds than DUC fighters (they don´t use ordnance), saving 125 Kt worth in ordnance storage to a carrier...

So the numbers are quite clear: It is a logistical suicide to use Small DUC fighters. They require way too much supplies and ammo.

Maybe another good option could be making small DUC use only 1 ordnance/round, instead of 1 ordnance and 1 supply. Have in mind that small DUC have the same cost/shot than Small Rockets, and that doesn´t have much sense...

BlueTemplar · Space Emperor Joined: Mar 27, 2007

I think small rockets and DUC should be re-balanced according to what they are supposed to do - the main advantage of small rockets IMO is that they are effective against emissive armor, and I don't see serious disadvantages that would make you prefer DUC instead. Maybe small rockets shouldn't be able to attack other fighters (and drones?) (but be able to attack sats!) , that way you would have a true bomber class!

Grendelio · Space Emperor Joined: Dec 09, 2006 Location: Spain

...

Small rockets only target "ship/base/planet/troop/weaponPlatform"

Small DUC targets all...

So what You suggest is already working. Wink

Small rockets are like "fighter´s CSM" (OK, there is Small Anti Matter Torp, but it is a late tech), problem is that they take the same ammo/supply than small DUC...

BlueTemplar · Space Emperor Joined: Mar 27, 2007

Oh? I should have checked that... I don't really see the balance problem then, since DUC and small rockets have different roles: small rockets are better, but can't attack space units.

CaptainKwok · Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:02 am Post subject:

The same supply usage was an oversight.

Also don't tell anyone that 1 supply usage components like Small DUCs etc., won't use any supply when the conservation racial trait is selected... Razz

BlueTemplar · Space Emperor Joined: Mar 27, 2007

That works for ordnance too?

CaptainKwok · Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:20 am Post subject:

That would be for supplies only.