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DXM's Digital Xperiment Mod
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Does any of this sound interesting?
Yes
63%
 63%  [ 7 ]
No
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Maybe
36%
 36%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 11

Author Message
DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah...I see. Well, at the moment, it looks like this:
Code:
=======================================================================================
ATMOSPHERE TYPES DATA FILE (DXM's Digital Xperiment Mod)
=======================================================================================


=======================================================================================
*BEGIN*
=======================================================================================

Name                                 := Airless Rock
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 1?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial, Irregular

Name                                 := Airless Ice
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 1?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial, Irregular

Name                                 := Artificial
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 1?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Artificial

Name                                 := Oxygen Terran
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen Barren
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen Desert
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen Ice
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen Jungle
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen Ocean
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen Swamp
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen Wasteland
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Assimilated
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Vongformed
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Methane Ice
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 3?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial, Irregular

Name                                 := Methane Hot
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 3?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Nitrogen Ice
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 3?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial, Irregular

Name                                 := Hydrogen
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 2?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Gas Giant

Name                                 := Carbon Dioxide Cold
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 5?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Carbon Dioxide Hot
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 5?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Sulfur Dioxide
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 5?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := Volcanic
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 5?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

Name                                 := ?
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic

Name                                 := ?
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic

Name                                 := ?
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic

Name                                 := ?
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic

Name                                 := ?
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic

=======================================================================================
*END*
=======================================================================================


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the physical types you're planning to use are:
Artificial, Exotic, Gas Giant, Irregular, Terrestrial

Artificial has only Artificial atmosphere.

Exotic... it looks like you haven't defined them yet, but 5 options.

Gas Giant has Hydrogen. 1 option.

Irregular has Airless Rock, Airless Ice, Methane Ice, Nitrogen Ice. 4 options.

Terrestrial has... 18 possible atmospheres.

I'm going to guess that you're not planning to support using artificial as a HW type.

So only 4 physical types as regular starting worlds. Each of which has a different number of atmospheres.

Hmm... you'd definitely need to build the universe with asymmetrical colonization in mind. which isn't easy. I did it in one version of asteroids mod, and the alternate universe test concept I never finished(and lost the files for)

I actually LIKE the idea of asymmetrical universe generation. It can make the game more interesting, and make it so colonization isn't just about numbers.

The first thing to consider is the inherent imbalances the system creates... especially since irregular shares atmospheres with terrestrial, but nothing else does.

QUESTION: Are you planning to make colonization tech freely researchable? If so... Irregular has a major advantage.

But whether you do or not, the disparity in atmosphere numbers creates an issue all it's own. If terrestrial and Gas planets spawn in equal numbers, then gas has a HUUGE advantage since literally every world they colonize is perfect for them, but Terrestrial players have a 1 in 18 chance of a world being undomed.

How to remedy? That's where things get complicated. You can't simply set Gas planets to spawn at 1/18 the rate of Terrestrial. If you do, Terrestrial gets a lot more out of it than gas. 1 + (17/5) = 4.4 vs 1. But if the ratio is 18 to 4 the net value comes out at 4.4 vs 4 which is a lot better.

Honestly, I'd reduce the numbers of Terrestrial atmospheres somewhat. Sure it can still have more than others, but 18 is NUTS.

Also, the shared atmosphere thing is awkward. One possible way to balance it is to seed planets in solar systems which are preset to use a non-shared atmosphere, to balance the ratio of planets with shared atmospheres vs non-shared. I wouldn't go too far though. You don't want the total value on a non-shared to be the same as shared, since it take more work for shared... but this is dependent on whether races can research a second colonization type at all.

One possible idea is to make each atmosphere occur on exactly 2 physical types.

Example:
Airless Rock, Airless Ice, Methane Ice, Nitrogen Ice are shared between Terrestrial and Irregular.

Hydrogen is not shared but could be shared with either Exotic or irregular. (Pluto is believed to have an atmosphere made of Hydrogen and Helium)

8 of the terrestrial atmospheres are Oxygen variants(this is part of what I'd consider condensing) you could have one or more shared with Gas or Exotic. (If you use the breathable layer hypothesis, it's not the bulk of the gas Giant that determines the atmosphere type, but the part of the atmosphere that you live in, and some gas giants are known to have oxygen in their atmospheres)

Assimilated and Vongformed seem like natural choices for Exotic.

Methane, I'd probably do only one version of Methane. but since you have it split and one version is shared but not the other... you could make Methane hot a Gas atmosphere.

Carbon dioxide... see Methane.

Sulfur dioxide, could also be gas, or it could work for exotic.

Volcanic seems like a natural choice for exotic.

So my proposal: (Feel free to disregard it if you wish. It's just a suggestion.)
Airless Ice; Irregular, Terrestrial
Airless Rock; Irregular, Terrestrial
Artificial; Artificial (special case)
Assimilated; Exotic, Terrestrial
Carbon Dioxide; Gas Giant, Terrestrial
Hydrogen; Exotic, Gas Giant
Methane Hot; Gas Giant, Terrestrial
Methane Ice; Irregular, Terrestrial
Nitrogen Ice; Irregular, Terrestrial
Oxygen Barren; Gas Giant, Terrestrial
Oxygen Ice; Irregular, Terrestrial
Oxygen Swamp; Exotic, Terrestrial
Oxygen Terran... not sure here... I'm tempted to say Gas just for balance.
Sulfur Dioxide; Exotic, Terrestrial
Volcanic; Exotic, Terrestrial
Vongformed; Exotic, Terrestrial

Totals:
Exotic 6
Gas Giant 4
Irregular 5
Terrestrial 14

Obviously this still has significant imbalances that would need to be balanced out by careful universe generation. This is mostly done in Systemtypes.txt, but in part by quadranttypes.txt. The first part of SystemTypes has the instructions for how to randomly generate planets. There are a variety of ways to tweak this, but the one we care about most right now is the Compositions part. This is what sets the relative number of planets of each type. Believe it or not... I actually set asteroids mod to NOT generate random asteroids at all and went through and manually added them to individual system definitions so that some systems would have more than others.

The other part is QuadrantTypes, obviously this determines what systems spawn and how they're connected, but it can also be used to set ratios relative to each other. For example, if you define a system type that is more likely to have gas planets than the others you can make that system type more or less common relative to the others here. That actually seems like a fun idea. you could choose a Quadrant Type to either benefit or handicap you at the start of the game. IIRC MoO2 had a "Universe age" feature that would change the ratio of planets spawned. Thus you could give yourself an advantage or handicap simply by changing whether the starting conditions favored you.


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... You usually don't have quite that much to say, I hope this means I've piqued your interest! Very Happy

At the moment, I'm not planning on Artificial HWs. The idea there was to either have BIG 'artifacts' that anyone can take control of, or worlds you build... And if you capture an artificial world that's the size of a space station, it shouldn't take months for you to convert the atmosphere... So, I just thought; why not have an atmosphere that doesn't match any species, but make domed figures the same as non-domed?

Another note... I haven't really planned on Irregulars being HWs either. Irregulars will be very small and put anyone starting on them at a severe disadvantage...

As for colony tech... Obviously a Terrestrial race should be able to colonize Irregulars... Anyone should be able to colonize Artificials... Terrestrials colonizing Gas Giants isn't too hard to imagine... Gas races colonizing Irregulars is believable due to low gravity... Though, Gas races colonizing Terrestrials seems unlikely... And I've been undecided about Exotics... But, your comments have led to some re-evaluations... Ultimately, I suppose freely researchable colony tech is the only way to go...

Alrighty, here's a revised version:
Code:
=======================================================================================
ATMOSPHERE TYPES DATA FILE (DXM's Digital Xperiment Mod)
=======================================================================================


=======================================================================================
*BEGIN*
=======================================================================================

Name                                 := Airless
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 1?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Irregular, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Arctic
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Irregular, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Artificial
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 1?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Artificial

Name                                 := Assimilated
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Irregular, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Barren
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Irregular, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Carbon Dioxide
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 5?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Gas Giant, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Dark Matter
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic, Irregular

Name                                 := Dimensional Gate
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic

Name                                 := Helium
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 2?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic, Gas Giant

Name                                 := Hydrogen
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 2?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic, Gas Giant

Name                                 := Methane
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 3?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Gas Giant, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Nitrogen
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 3?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Irregular, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oceanic
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Oxygen
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Gas Giant, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Quantum Crystal
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := ?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic, Gas Giant

Name                                 := Sulfur Dioxide
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 5?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Gas Giant, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Swamp
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Exotic, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Volcanic
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 5?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Irregular, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Vongformed
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Irregular, Terrestrial

Name                                 := Wasteland
Description                          :=
Picture Index                        := 4?
Allowed On Planet Physical Types     := Terrestrial

=======================================================================================
*END*
=======================================================================================

Totals:
Exotic 7
Gas Giant 7
Irregular 8
Terrestrial 14

Now, you may or may not care to here my thought processes on this, but I'd like to state them anyway! Wink

Originally, I expected to have only Airless Ice & Airless Rock for Irregulars... But as long as alterations were being made for the sake of balance, I decided there was no need to have both. So, now there is only "Airless."

I changed Oxygen Ice to "Arctic." By removing "Oxygen" I think it feels more plausible as something other than a Terrestrial atmosphere. The same goes for all the other similar changes...

The original idea behind Exotic type planets was to make them very different from ordinary planets... And, the basic idea behind Assimilated & Vongformed was to provide a visual aspect to those planets being taken over by races known to inflict cosmetic changes on worlds they conquer. For the moment, I've made these Irr/Ter atmospheres... But, if I can find and/or make some textures that seem more 'exotic', while still seeming very Borg/Vong looking, they may be changed to Exo/Ter atmospheres...

Oxygen Barren & Oxygen Desert are now condensed into "Barren." Removing 'oxygen' also opens up the possibility of lumping planets like Mars into this category. Which, in turn, eliminates the need for CO2-Cold. Therefore, CO2-Hot is now simply "Carbon Dioxide" and is a Gas/Ter atmosphere.

One of my previously undefined Exotic atmospheres: Dark Matter. Obviously, I'm using atmosphere not so much to refer to just atmosphere, but also to give the greater variety which can't be achieved via Planet Physical Type due to colonizing limitations... DM planets are Exotic, but there could also be DM asteroids, thus it is an Irregular 'atmosphere' as well.

Dimensional Gate. This is only Exotic, because it just doesn't make sense as anything else. These 'planets' will use models like the Fluidic Rift from Armada II, and will be a way of 'pretending' that extra-dimensional invaders like Species 8472, really are coming from somewhere beyond our universe.

Helium & Hydrogen are both major components of Gas Giants, but they can also work for one of my ideas for Exotic 'planets' - colonizable Nebulae.

I removed 'Ice' from Nitrogen & condensed Methane Ice into it... And removed 'Hot' from the remaining Methane. So, Nitrogen is now Irr/Ter & just plain Methane is Gas/Ter...

Oxygen Ocean becomes Oceanic... I really feel this needs to remain for flavor. If I play as the Mon Calamari, I don't want to wind up with a HW that is mostly land covered... But, as was discussed in another thread, The Waters from VOY were not a planet... So Oceanic could potentially works as an Exotic 'atmosphere' as well.

Oxygen Terran becomes simply "Oxygen." This makes it much less awkward to use as a Gas Giant atmosphere. Also, Jungle has been condensed into O2.

Quantum Crystal; another previously undefined Exotic... But such crystals might form in Gas Giants, so it could work for both.

SO2 didn't match any of my ideas for Exotics, so I used it as Gas/Ter.

Oxygen Swamp drops O2 to be just "Swamp." Even though it's a bit odd, it will work for one of my Exotic ideas - a Bio-Mass; instead of planet with life on it, a planet that is a lifeform or collection of lifeforms.

Volcanic...bit of a stretch here. Doesn't really fit with my ideas for Exotic... For the moment, I went with Irr/Ter, but I might swap it out later...

Wasteland; this is only Terrestrial. The idea here was a planet that was once Earth-like, and suffered a war/disaster or centuries of pollution. It can't really be condensed into another atmosphere, or be used realistically on anything other than Terrestrial... It is just for flavor, but I prefer to keep it.

So, what do think of the revised list?


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You piqued my interest weeks ago it's just that I don't usually feel the need to write an essay on my thoughts. I suppose I should give some background data...

When I made Asteroids mod it was set so that you could freely start as rock/ice/gas/asteroid. Asteroid was slightly better but not a lot. (you could make constructed asteroids easier than rock/ice/gas)

The alternate reality idea I had was setup with 6 physical types, and 6 atmospheres... yes six. One was uncolonizable, BUT you could choose it as a starting planet anyways. If you did you'd start with a colonization tech for a different type. I forget which one. Anyways, I'd make it so that if someone DOES do something silly and choose Irregular or Artificial as their HW type that the game will give them a proper HW... and let them deal with their own decision. Being stuck with an endless handicap is a powerful disadvantage. Razz

As for what planets/atmospheres I used:
Brown Dwarf, I forget the atmosphere, maybe hydrogen/helium? This is the non-colonizable one and used the models for regular gas planets.
Crystalline/Ion fog or something... I envisioned these as looking like clusters of pointy asteroids, or maybe kinda like http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/Petropia
Dimensional pocket/dunno... These were planned to use warp point graphics instead of planet graphics(yes you can do that)
Machine planet/Argon/Oxygen These were planned to use the constructed world skin but with a Transformers logo of some sort on them. the physical type and Atmosphere are references to SE2 where main player HWs were white and had their faction logo stamped on them, these were called "Machine" planets. The Atmo is one from SE3 that isn't in SE5.
Quantum Filament/Quantum Haze These were usually ring shaped, except the ones that were HWs. either way they were black and kinda rocky looking.
I forget what I called it but the last one was a colonizable nebula... I think.

I find it very interesting that you decided to use similar ideas to some of them. Very Happy

And yes, I like to hear your thought process, because it helps me figure out what suggestions to make.

So you now have 20 atmospheres... wow. Less than before but still a lot.

Maybe you could make Dimensional gate also irregular, and make the irregular version use several small rifts instead of one large rift.

Wasteland... might work as Exotic too. Fiction sometimes has truely screwball planet sized objects that have no bio-sphere to speak of. Maybe have them use regular boring brown planet models, but set the scale factors to make them nearly disk shaped? Maybe have them use weird random spin orientations? Very Happy Your concept has it being the bombed out ruins of a civilization... maybe the ruins aren't a globe anymore? Hmm... you could make football shapes too. This is just by adjusting the "Starting Scale" x/y/z in XFileClasses_Stellar.txt. If you use a standard round planet you always want them to be the same. But it you're making something exotic... you could do flattened footballs too.

All in all I like the new ideas. Very Happy


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stars as planets...you know, there were several ship sets in SE4 that looked like plasma lifeforms or whatever... But there just haven't been any sets like that in SE5.

Pointy Asteroids... Hmm. *rummages through files* Any of these fit the bill?


Dimensional Pocket... I had thought of something like that... VOY featured a subspace sinkhole that had swallowed a star system... And then there was another episode that had some kind of pocket universe...say, was that VOY episode a re-write of the TAS episode that featured the Bonaventure?

A couple of the Artificials might be like machine planets... Can you give planets special abilities? One idea I had was to have a ruin tech that would let you build a computer planet that would give a research bonus...

I never played SE2 or SE3, I don't think... Was there even an SE1?

Quantum Filament... I had thought of including such a thing in the mod, but not as a planet... I figured on making it like a type of storm or something; a space hazard...

Great minds think alike. Wink

Yeah, I know, 20 atmospheres are a lot... But, I don't know of any way to make sure Cardassians start on a desert planet, or Mon Cals start on an Ocean planet, etc. What would be nice is if SE5 worked like SE4 - and you could set up a map ahead of time and set players to start on specific planets that you picked out...

Dimensional Gate as Irregular...that could work...

Wasteland as Exotic...actually, I have the perfect model for that!

What thinkest thou?


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

those are some neat models. Very Happy

The voy ep was different in that the pocket had a different nature. Also the one in the voy ep was destroyed.

Yes and no. you can add special abilities in SystemTypes, but not StellarObjects or XFileClasses. So if you are pre-placing a specific type of world using a special system, yes, otherwise, no.

SE1 was a proof of concept from what I heard and not ever a finished product. IIRC, it was a lot like SE2, but with less stuff.

20 Atmospheres is probably workable. Razz

that's a cool looking wasteland. Very Happy


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the revisions to the atmosphere list have sent me back to re-organizing my textures yet again... And even though a lower poly model might have improved performance fractionally, I've decided to just go with the stock planet model...

Not that I don't still want opinions on the planet textures, but a little while back I laid out a good wad of cash ($1) to get a model of a hexagon. And with it, I managed to approximate something similar to some of the armor component pictures that were included in the SE4 Image Mod...

Which ones do you think are best?

Faux Asteroid Plating:

The idea here is a type of armor that gives a low cloak level as well as protection...

Ice Sheathing:

This one comes from the Kris Longknife books - traditional battleships in the books are covered in meters of ice which protects them from lasers.

Rock Sheathing:

Also from the Kris Longknife books - alien aggressors were unarmored when first encountered, but then added layers of rock to their hulls.

There are a lot more ideas, but these were the only ones that I wasn't sure which pictures to use...


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, you paid $1 for a model of a hexagon? Maybe I should consider making and selling 3D models... I'm not that good at it but if you can make money off of something as simple as a hexagon...

It is amazing, though, what a few hexagons and some bitmapped textures can do!


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hexagons are Cool !

I'm not rich, but if I need something for my hobbies I won't hesitate to spend a few bucks... I tried searching for a free model, but no luck... This was the only one I found. It was on TurboSquid. I'm glad it was only $1... If it had been more, I would have just given up on the idea... I'm unable to 'create' 3D stuff... But I can 'kitbash' models... And, indeed, I had to put quite a bit of effort into getting the textures to look the way I wanted...

So, any opinions on which pictures work best?


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, most of the rock armors are too dark to be easily visible, but all the rest of the armors look good...

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, I think the second from right on the bottom row of each is best.

I guess you still want suggestions for planet skins?


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes...and no. A side effect of me going with the stock planet model, was me testing out the textures on the model... After doing so, I discovered that a lot of these supposedly seamless textures are not, in fact, seamless.

So, yeah... I'm having to filter those out. Or try to fix them...

I'll post the contenders for each atmosphere type one at a time... Feel free to tell me if you think any of the textures should belong to another category...

Here are the filtered results for "Airless."

Preview 01:

Preview 02:

Preview 03:

And before anybody complains about all the gray - go outside and look at the moon! It's gray. And don't forget - gray is the new black. Wink Cool


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

set1
1 good 2 good 3 good 4 golf ball(the surface looks suspiciously regular, it's passable, but inferior quality)
5 marble (looks artificial) 6 marble 7 marble 8 good
9 golfball 10 golfball 11 golfball 12 good
13 good 14 good 15 marble 16 good
17 good 18 good 19 good 20 good
21 good 22 golfball 23 golfball 24 golfball
25 good 26 good 27 good 28 marble
29 marble 30 marble (I'm tempted to use it anyways because of the subtle color shading) 31 good 32 good

set 2
1 2 3 8 9 are really the same texture, I think 1 is the best of them. (unlike the later examples these have very little shading difference)
4 golfball 5 good 6 good 7 this would look really weird wrapped around a sphere...
10/11/12/13/14/15/16 marble/golfball
17 marble 18 good 19 good 20 good(it's the same surface details as 19 but reshaded in natural colors)
21 golfball 22 good(decent reshaded of 1Cool 23 good 24 marble
25 marble 26 golfball 27 golfball 28 good
29 good 30/31/32 golfball

set3
1 marble 2 good 3 good 4 good
5 good 6 good 7 see 2.1/2/3/8/9 8 looks like a reshade of 1.19 but it's a good one
9 good 10 good 11 good but very red 12 good
11 marble 12 marble


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of like 1.4, 1.10, 2.26 & 2.31; so I haven't filtered them out quite yet... Pretty much all the other marble/golfball have been filtered out...except 1.30 & 2.7.

Now, I freely admit that 2.7 has a seam. Very obvious towards the south, but to me it doesn't seem as obvious towards the north... I really like its surface feature variations...

What do you think? Too much of a seam to deal with?

Now, 3.11 - you said it was very red... Do you think it's best to leave it as is, convert it to grayscale, or attempt some type of color correction?

Also, here are the Arctic contenders:

Preview 01:

Preview 02:

Preview 03:


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2.7 it's not bad... but I'd use the others over it.

3.11 might be best reclassified as a different atmosphere. what sort of atmo where you expecting to have as reddish?

set1:
marble, marble, 3 hmmmm blue and featureless, except for banded clouds maybe a different planet type? 4 good
good good good marble
marble marble marble marble
marble marble marble marble
marble good(subtle pink/purple) marble golfball
golfball marble marble good
marble marble marble marble
good marble good good

set2:
marble marble marble Hmm... odd bright purple color, but good
good good marble marble
marble marble good golfball
marble marble good good
good marble marble marble... nearly featureless
marble good marble hmmm not a bad texture... why is it doubled?
marble iffy marble iffy(not great, but okay)
good good good good

set 3
good good dupe(probably useable though) marble
marble marble marble marble
marble marble marble marble
marble good good good
good

those last four are kinda similar to each other, but not TOO similar


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reddish...mostly they were going in the "Barren" category; which was red/brown, maybe gray...but now is also where all the "Desert" textures wound up...

1.3 - this was placed in "Arctic" because it was labeled "Andor" by its author. What do you think? Methane Gas Giant, maybe?

1.17 & 2.19 - for some reason, I really like these two patterns... Maybe I'm just weird...

1.27 - are you sure this one's a marble? It doesn't quite look like a repeating pattern to me...

Holding off on filtering out the above as well as the two you noted as iffy, and 2.12... All other marble/golfball filtered out...

2.24 - should have been a single & double to choose from, just like 25&26 / 27&28... Found the single version and included it in the 'selected' folder.

3.2 & 3.3 - I knew they were the same, but since I found the texture used both ways, I thought I'd see which way up you thought was better...?

Also, the next category: "Barren"

Preview 01:

Preview 02:

Preview 03:

Preview 04:

There are a lot, but that's largely due to the fact that "Oxygen Desert" was a big collection already, what with all the Stargate mods I browsed through(as though they only went to desert worlds!), and then "Oxygen Barren" got lumped in with it... Plus "CO2 Cold" as well... Though, I read somewhere online that 'desert worlds' might really be a more common type of planet...


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well then I guess reclassify that red one as desert then?

1.3: Andor and Andoria are two different things. Andoria is the HW of the Andorians... and a moon orbiting the gas giant Andor. Your skin is apparently Andor itself. But yeah, it's a gas giant.

1.17 and 2.19 aren't really bad I guess

1.27 "marble" is for things that look artificial to me. this one is kinda borderline I guess.

3.2 and 3.3 are both usable, the only difference seems to be rotation.

preview 1
good marble marble marble
marble good good Volcano.. seriously, it looks like the planet has an ocean made of lava. Maybe the polar caps are ash layers?
marble marble good good
good marble(interesting texture though) marble marble
marble airless? marble okish(yes I know it's the next two but it looks better than they do)
marble marble volcanic good
good good good good
good marble marble good

preview 2
good good good lava
good good good good
marble marble good good
marble good marble marble
marble good good golfball
golfball golfball good marble
not a natural color this is an elevation chart good good lava
good good very.. red good

preview 3
lava-ey good good good
good good good good
good good good good
good good good good
good good good good
good good good good
good good good good
good good good good

preview4
good good good good
good good good good
lava good lava good
good good good good

um so some of the lava-ey looking one are more red than others, but some really don't look very desert, 1.8 is the best example because it literally looks like it has oceans of molten lava


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok... Red Airless reclassified as Barren... Ah, I had no idea about Andor. I think I still think in old school terms - I'm pretty sure the Andorians used to be said to live on a jungle world, so I haven't given much consideration to the new concept for them...

I've moved the ones you pointed out to the Volcanic contenders, we'll revisit them later...

1.18 ("Airless?") - this is supposed to be the planet from TOS: "The City on the Edge of Forever."

The next three atmosphere types will be uploaded together...there aren't that many of them. Keep in mind that the vast majority of gas textures have yet to be processed, so they will be discussed later.

Carbon Dioxide Preview:

Methane Preview:

Nitrogen Preview:


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't remember the Andorians ever being said to come from a warm planet...

1.18: Hmm... in the remastered TOS it does look very grey and lifeless, not sure it looked quite like that... it's not a bad texture though

Are these supposed to be solid or gas? enh.. i'll just tag them with what looks right.

Carbon dioxide
gas marble gas gas
gas gas(green) gas marble
rock marble dupe(5) gas
gas(green) marble dupe(12) rock
marble marble gas gas
marble rock gas(dupe) rock
rock gas rock rock
gas gas blue square(ok it has a few texture details, but not much)

amusingly several of those look like reshades of Venus

Methane
gas marble marble rock
marble gas marble (this just doesn't makes sense as a planet texture)
marble gas gas rock
rock rock gas airless?

nitrogen
gas gasrock rock
marble marble rock rock
gas gas airless? rock
dupe airless airless rock
rock airless airless gas
gas gas rock


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it wasn't on TV, it wasn't "canon," and I don't think there was anything on TV about Andoria until Enterprise. But at least as early as the late 80s, supplemental materials claimed a jungle planet... I think that's why an early 2000s fan film had that setting.

1.18...can't vouch for accuracy, just know the texture is labeled "Guardian Planet."

These were mostly supposed to be solid, but if they look like gas then I guess that's what they need to be...

CO2 18 - I know it doesn't look like much, but I personally like this one once it's wrapped around a model...

CO2 31 - Is that one blue? Seriously?! Embarassed I told you I was colorblind! Laughing (it totally looks green to me)

They probably are re-shades of Venus. You wouldn't believe how many people used the Venus surface as a planet texture. Since we can't see that surface, it really annoys me when they use it as the texture for Venus itself.

Meth 7 - I also like this one once it's on the model...

Meth 8 - agreed, but it was called "Methane Lakes of Titan," so I threw it in.

Meth 16 - actually, this one was labeled "White Zinfandel." Laughing

Nitrogen... Here we have a slight issue; unlike CO2 & Methane, Nitrogen wasn't supposed to be for Gas... Hmm.

In the meantime, here are the next two categories...

Oceanic Preview:

Sulfur Dioxide Preview 1:

Sulfur Dioxide Preview 2:


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't remember it ever being said in the TV show that Andoria was ever anything BUT an iceworld... Now the bit about it being a Moon... yeah that wasn't established until ENT. The TV shows had used the names Andor and Andoria seemingly interchangeably prior to that. Secondary sources had a variety as methods of attempting to reconcile the disparity. but very little was said of the Andorians prior to ENT really. they usually just showed up as background characters.

some of the ones labeled Gas could be used for solid I guess.

CO2.18 ok, if you like it. Razz

CO2.31 well... blue-green, but more blue than green. Maybe Teal would be a good word for it?

meth8 would be good for a ground picture

meth16 well it's definitely white...

The nitrogen ones I marked as gas could be used for rock I suppose.

ocean:
good marble good good
good good good good
good hmmm maybe halve it and stretch it? good marble
marble good good good
good good good dupe(1Cool
kinda featureless, like a blue gas planet good good good
gas good good marble

SO2.1:
good marble marble marble
maybe maybe marble marble
marble marble marble maybe
Io(good Razz) marble marble marble
maybe maybe Io(with clouds) Io(false color)
Io(orange shift) something green(good) marble marble
marble maybe marble maybe
marble marble maybe maybe

Yeah it's not the first reshade of Io. heeh, Io looks interesting.

SO2.2:
Io(brown) good Io(this is the most realistic one I've seen) Io(interesting color filters here, makes it a subdued red/brown/green with lighter highlights)


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marhawkman wrote:
I don't remember it ever being said in the TV show that Andoria was ever anything BUT an iceworld... ... very little was said of the Andorians prior to ENT really.

That was my point. The jungle home world was NOT canon, because it was not on TV. They never told us about their home until ENT. But, because we went so long without a canon source, some authors decided to just say they came from a jungle.

Teal, my mom's favorite color...

Nitrogen re-sorted...

I've kept the maybe's separate...we may come back to them later.

Okay, three more categories...

Swamp Preview 1:

Swamp Preview 2:

Volcanic Preview 1:

Volcanic Preview 2:

Wasteland Preview:


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swamp preview 1:
red/white, good, white/green, golfball
marble, marble, marble, good
what would this look like as a half-texture? marble, mostly white(with some green), black/pink
marble, weird reddish earth tones, pastel earth tones, ok
mostly white/grey with hints of green, marble, maybe, maybe
ok, blue, red/brown, weird mottley colors
blue/white, ok, ok, pink/blue
pinkish tan, ok ok ok

swamp preview 2:
good good good good(oceany)
ocean good good good
ocean ocean, hmmm icecaps, ocean
good good good good

volcanic 1
marble, marble, maybe, marble,
marble, marble, good, maybe,
good, marble, marble, maybe,
maybe, maybe good good
good marble, dupe(8 ), marble,
marble, marble, marble, marble,
marble, marble, marble, marble,
maybe maybe maybe maybe

volcanic 2
marble, maybe good maybe

wasteland
golfball marble marble maybe
good marble marble maybe
good marble, marble, marble,
marble, marble, good swamp
hmm... would be good but it has red/pink oceans, good good swamp
good good good


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DXM
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 20, 2012

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, lots of maybe's in there...and all appear to be tiled...
So, here are stretched alternates for you:
Swamp:

Volcanic:

Wasteland:


Wasteland 17 - red seas are part of what I like about it...I figured either it indicates some sort of exotic contamination, or else indicates that nothing but red algae lives there anymore...

Wasteland 20 - even though it looks like a swamp, I'm keeping this one here; it is supposed to be the Noghri home world, which was heavily contaminated...

And now, the first half of the "Oxygen" textures:
Preview 01:

Preview 02:

Preview 03:

Preview 04:

Preview 05:


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the stretched versions look a lot better.

oxygen1:
good good, terrain terrain(these would be great for a ground map where it's a small part of the planet, but not a whole planet)
terrain terrain terrain good
terrain terrain terrain maybe(looks kinda dry, barren? wasteland?)
good golfbal terrain terrain
good purple/white terrain terrain
wasteland?(after halved) terrain terrain terrain

oxygen2
weird slate-grey(wasteland? barren?) marble good good
good terrain terrain terrain
good good halve? terrain
weird red color, good good good
marble -- -- --
good, red-brown/teal, good good

Oxygen 3
swamp featureless good --
good terrain terrain terrain
terrain good good --
swamp? barren? -- good
good good good good
good good good good

oxygen 4
good good good good
good good good good
good good good good
good featureless good terrain
good featureless jungle/swamp? terrain
swamp -- good good

oxygen5
ok good ocean good
golfball swamp? good swamp?
barren good good good
good barren barren good
good good good wasteland?
good good swamp? ermm... looks like a topo chart shaded based on elevation.


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